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NewEnglands_KyoSa
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 907
Location: New England
Styles: Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do , Chinese Kempo
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 Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| 50inches wrote: |
| NewEnglands_KyoSa wrote: |
| mmljpp wrote: |
| a good groin kick or kneecap strike much better than high kicks |
the groin is a quick response especially in self defense situations and when talking to women, but its actually been proven that groins are just a little below OK but not a great idea. for many reasons including it doesnt take much to cut off the target, just simply turning to the side, then you are off balance and they are not(big trouble!) also it isnt a big target(in most cases  ) so missing and slipping are very easy. also its not an extremely painful target, is it painful, heck yeah, but nothing in comparison to a punch or kick anywhere else, and its certainly not deadly, so a few seconds later the man's reaction to your groin kick is going to be a hugely angry reaction where now you have bigger problems than you probably began with. kneecaps are also a little bit of a risk, its best to attack those from the side...not the kneecap itself per-se. but then again, anything can work if its set up properly, how you'll set somebody up to spread-em beats me  |
You must be girl because any man knows that the groin is the mother of all pain haha. No but seriously, it is the most painful place to get struck, I would rather take 10 punches to the head than that. You do make good point it not being the easiest place to strike however, especially the kneecap is a small target to be aiming at. |
ok, sure it's painful(keep in mind everyones pain tolerance is different so, maybe some guys are more apt to feel pain there or deal with it, that goes for everyone). but the great pain doesn't take away from the response level. the response level to that kind of strike(to that area), is a very quick one, pain or no pain. it also causes a a more angry reaction because of the place of impact too, for example would you be more ticked off getting punched in the face during a fight, or slapped in the face, for whatever reason, the anger and emotion response responds more to the slap even though it most likely hurt less. you will get the same response out of the groin. its a quick reaction and an angry one at that, pain or no pain.
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ps1
Black Belt
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 3025
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| NewEnglands_KyoSa wrote: |
| 50inches wrote: |
| NewEnglands_KyoSa wrote: |
| mmljpp wrote: |
| a good groin kick or kneecap strike much better than high kicks |
the groin is a quick response especially in self defense situations and when talking to women, but its actually been proven that groins are just a little below OK but not a great idea. for many reasons including it doesnt take much to cut off the target, just simply turning to the side, then you are off balance and they are not(big trouble!) also it isnt a big target(in most cases ) so missing and slipping are very easy. also its not an extremely painful target, is it painful, heck yeah, but nothing in comparison to a punch or kick anywhere else, and its certainly not deadly, so a few seconds later the man's reaction to your groin kick is going to be a hugely angry reaction where now you have bigger problems than you probably began with. kneecaps are also a little bit of a risk, its best to attack those from the side...not the kneecap itself per-se. but then again, anything can work if its set up properly, how you'll set somebody up to spread-em beats me |
You must be girl because any man knows that the groin is the mother of all pain haha. No but seriously, it is the most painful place to get struck, I would rather take 10 punches to the head than that. You do make good point it not being the easiest place to strike however, especially the kneecap is a small target to be aiming at. |
ok, sure it's painful(keep in mind everyones pain tolerance is different so, maybe some guys are more apt to feel pain there or deal with it, that goes for everyone). but the great pain doesn't take away from the response level. the response level to that kind of strike(to that area), is a very quick one, pain or no pain. it also causes a a more angry reaction because of the place of impact too, for example would you be more ticked off getting punched in the face during a fight, or slapped in the face, for whatever reason, the anger and emotion response responds more to the slap even though it most likely hurt less. you will get the same response out of the groin. its a quick reaction and an angry one at that, pain or no pain. |
Trying to cause pain in a fight is a poor method of winning (assuming life or death). Pain can easily be ignored. Strikes should be strategic so as to cause loss of motor control either biomechanically (like a kick to the knee) or neurologically (kick to the head).
Biomechanical= Kick to the knee and the attacker falls down. Not because it hurts though (that's just bonus). Rather because the damage to the structural integrity makes it impossible for the joint to continue supporting body weight.
Neurological= Kick to the head causes the brain to bounce around inside the head, temporarily severing communication with the body. In response the body shuts down (knock out) until communication can be restored.
Both are extremely effective means of ending a fight. People like to discount the high kick by talking about falling down and such. Well...if you're on ice or poor footing...any kick is risky. I just twisted my ankle the other day practicing a low line round house kick.
I have always found this to be a silly argument. Both kicking levels have been proven very effective. Fights have been ended with each...both in real life and competitions. In the end it comes down to the skill level and comfortability of the person executing the technique.
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"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenius." |
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NewEnglands_KyoSa
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 907
Location: New England
Styles: Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do , Chinese Kempo
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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essentially it is a ridiculous argument, anything can work as long as its set up properly, youre not going to take someone down without a quickstrike first, youre not going to have a enough time to throw a kick to the head without a quickstrike and a set up to a good angle first. and of course strikes should be strategic, if they weren't...well you can imagine. but a good amount of strikes cause pain, discomfort, or disruption of one center(simply put balance)
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cross
Black Belt
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1904
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| NewEnglands_KyoSa wrote: |
| essentially it is a ridiculous argument, anything can work as long as its set up properly, |
Your correct in saying that anything "can" work. But just because something can work, doesnt make it the most sensible thing to use, or the most appropriate thing to teach the majority of people who want to learn self defense. |
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Throwdown0850
Brown Belt
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 701
Styles: Judo, BJJ, Uechi Ryu
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| lets pretend the enemy is an average joe with a bad attitude.. who is not trained.. he is probably not going to expect any kick, low or high.. personally I would use a kick to the knee, even though I dont have a background in karate of TKD.. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| Throwdown0850 wrote: |
| lets pretend the enemy is an average joe with a bad attitude.. who is not trained.. he is probably not going to expect any kick, low or high.. personally I would use a kick to the knee, even though I dont have a background in karate of TKD.. |
This is a good point. Even those who are trained in kicking can get kicked in sparring, and the expect to get kicked.
However, I am of the opinion that lower line kicks will have a higher percentage of success than high kicks will.
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Throwdown0850
Brown Belt
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 701
Styles: Judo, BJJ, Uechi Ryu
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Throwdown0850 wrote: |
| lets pretend the enemy is an average joe with a bad attitude.. who is not trained.. he is probably not going to expect any kick, low or high.. personally I would use a kick to the knee, even though I dont have a background in karate of TKD.. |
This is a good point. Even those who are trained in kicking can get kicked in sparring, and the expect to get kicked.
However, I am of the opinion that lower line kicks will have a higher percentage of success than high kicks will. |
Agreed..  |
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on the post.
