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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1871

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The tip of the toe kick and other such small , narrow surface striking techniques are nowadays thought of being specific to certain styles such as uechi ryu, but not very long ago it was widely practised by in all forms of karate and Okinawan martial arts. Uechi ryu is usually mentioned because it is the only Okinawan karate style that still actively and purposefully trains those techniques. With the othe styles, it depends on the lineage and instructor. My shorin ryu instructor is one of those exceptions and, just as uechi ryu students we are taught and expected to learn to kick with the big toe and do much of the same type of body hardening seen in uechi ryu. On asking if it was style specific, my Okinawan sensei replied that it used to be universal. So it isnít just the uechi ryu guys, they just stuck to it longer.
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aurik
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 197
Location: Denver, CO
Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So yesterday at class, I did my first breaks with a wrist block/strike, and also a boshiken. The wrist block was super easy -- make sure you're striking with the bone on top of the wrist, get a good hip snap in there to put your weight behind it, and keep the entire body in a good strong Sanchin stance. When I struck, my wrist went through it like a hot knife through butter.

The next break was a boshiken (think palm-heel strike, with the thumb tucked firmly against the palm, the thumb is the weapon), and that went through super easy as well, but I've got some joint soreness from it now.

I can only imagine what it would feel like to be on the receiving end of either of those!
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P.A.L
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1260
Location: Texas
Styles: Shorin-ryu

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it is effective if you work on it. My shorin ryu sensei could break boards with his fingers and I got toe kicked by Sensei Ron Lindsey and Sensei Hokama. Sensei Hokama constantly practices the toe kick formation while standing by putting his index toe over the big toe.
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RW
Green Belt
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 407


PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Nukite and Toe striking...small target striking! Reply with quote

Himokiri Karate wrote:
Alright, this thread is based on my username and its also based on classical karate and the principle is based on, wait for it, my signature!

So I make this thread because I have been practicing Taekwondo and the emphasis is on speed and NOT on power. This actually brings me to the recent UFC leg breaks from hard kicking. Now I have been working on snapping kicks quick with no power but using snaps, accuracy and stabbing with the toe. I noticed its way healthier for the body and I can hit and not hurt my legs because they are flexed and properly bent.

This brings me to the barehanded techniques of Karate, we have hiraken, ippon ken and of course the ultimate small target area...Nukite!

Tell me something, as karatekas, how many of you practice these moves? Do students object because of possible hand deforming or do you guys use medicine similar to iron palms or do you guys recommend any recovery tactics?


You don't really have to pick between hard thai-style kicks and snappy TKD-like kicks (or karate kicks, which are in between those 2).

Think about boxing, you don't have to choose between hard punches like the cross or straight or quick, snappy punches like the jab: you use both so you can be unpredictable.

The prospect of a thai-style leg break kick does concern me, but I won't be fighting full contact, without shin gear in the foreseeable future, or probably ever, so it's no biggie
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aurik
Orange Belt
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Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 197
Location: Denver, CO
Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it's about hip drive and penetration. A snap kick is powered by the knee and quad. The knee comes up, the foot snaps out, and then it retracts, rechambers, and sets back down on the ground.

A thrusting kick involves the knee coming up and chambering, then your foot moves parallel to the ground and out to the target as your hips drive forward to help your foot penetrate the target.

Did I mention that the preferred target for our sokusen geri is the bladder?
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28973
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know why TKD gets labeled for having so-called "snappy kicks." I break three and four boards with round kicks. They aren't "snappy" kicks. The bottom line is, no matter your style, you can choose to do snappy kicks, or thrusting kicks, or swinging kicks, or spinning kicks, etc. It's not about style, it's about execution.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15453
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
I don't know why TKD gets labeled for having so-called "snappy kicks." I break three and four boards with round kicks. They aren't "snappy" kicks. The bottom line is, no matter your style, you can choose to do snappy kicks, or thrusting kicks, or swinging kicks, or spinning kicks, etc. It's not about style, it's about execution.

Proper execution births penetration; not to said target but through said target no matter the selected weapon, be it Nukite, Toe Kick, or whatever. No execution...no penetration...no effectiveness.



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vergil96
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 02 Sep 2021
Posts: 17

Styles: Karate Shotokan, Judo

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see people on the internet complain about nukite a lot, but I don't really see so much of a problem. For sure, it requires more experience to hit a small target like the trachea. But does it really require years of hardening your hands like Jesse Enkamp said in one of his videos? I don't see it as a widespread problem.
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Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1783
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vergil96 wrote:
But does it really require years of hardening your hands like Jesse Enkamp said in one of his videos?


Like most things in the realms of the martial arts, yes. Though I wouldn't necessarily call it hardening in this case. I feel that it is more akin to getting use to the feeling and drilling the amount of power that you can take. There is a reason that these strikes aren't typically done at full power. Chiefly, they don't need to be, they're generally meant for softer parts. Secondly, no one likes jammed and broken fingies.
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vergil96
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 02 Sep 2021
Posts: 17

Styles: Karate Shotokan, Judo

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zaine wrote:
vergil96 wrote:
But does it really require years of hardening your hands like Jesse Enkamp said in one of his videos?


Like most things in the realms of the martial arts, yes. Though I wouldn't necessarily call it hardening in this case. I feel that it is more akin to getting use to the feeling and drilling the amount of power that you can take. There is a reason that these strikes aren't typically done at full power. Chiefly, they don't need to be, they're generally meant for softer parts. Secondly, no one likes jammed and broken fingies.

Do you think it really is completely ineffective unless you train nukite for a few years? This is the impression I get from listening or reading what some people say.
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