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Zaine
Black Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2278
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA
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 Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:26 am Post subject: |
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Getting hit with a spear hand in the throat is going to hurt regardless of the level of training of the person throwing the technique. The technique itself isn't ineffective, the human throwing it might be. The issue is that there is a greater risk of injury than if you threw a punch at the same area, which would likely be just as effective if landed. The pay off is greater control of yourself, and a greater range of soft targets. It would be difficult to shove a fist into an eye, but a finger might do the trick if I was looking to temporary blind someone to escape.
As to the question on length, I think a few years is a good measure of mastery, but not so great if we're measuring proficiency. I think that it's fairly safe to say that a martial artist would be able to throw an effective spear hand or toe kick without injuring themselves within a few months of training.
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Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.
https://www.instagram.com/nordic_karate/ |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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Zaine
Black Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2278
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| In a society where footwear is prevalent, I don't see how conditioning your toes for kicking is very relevant, other than being an anachronistic thing. |
I'll have you know that I insist that all street fights I'm in are barefoot. I stop the whole confrontation and have all participants take their shoes off.
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Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.
https://www.instagram.com/nordic_karate/ |
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vergil96
White Belt
Joined: 02 Sep 2021
Posts: 20
Styles: Karate Shotokan, Judo
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| Zaine wrote: |
Getting hit with a spear hand in the throat is going to hurt regardless of the level of training of the person throwing the technique. The technique itself isn't ineffective, the human throwing it might be. The issue is that there is a greater risk of injury than if you threw a punch at the same area, which would likely be just as effective if landed. The pay off is greater control of yourself, and a greater range of soft targets. It would be difficult to shove a fist into an eye, but a finger might do the trick if I was looking to temporary blind someone to escape.
As to the question on length, I think a few years is a good measure of mastery, but not so great if we're measuring proficiency. I think that it's fairly safe to say that a martial artist would be able to throw an effective spear hand or toe kick without injuring themselves within a few months of training. |
Well then, agreed. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Zaine wrote: |
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| In a society where footwear is prevalent, I don't see how conditioning your toes for kicking is very relevant, other than being an anachronistic thing. |
I'll have you know that I insist that all street fights I'm in are barefoot. I stop the whole confrontation and have all participants take their shoes off. |
You've fought some very understanding opponents. 
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tatsujin
Orange Belt
Joined: 12 Oct 2021
Posts: 162
Styles: Ryusei-ha Ryukyu Kempo Karate-jutsu
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Nukite and Toe striking...small target striking! |
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| Himokiri Karate wrote: |
This brings me to the barehanded techniques of Karate, we have hiraken, ippon ken and of course the ultimate small target area...Nukite!
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My only nitpick with you would be that "typically" the ultimate small target area would be ippon nukite or the single finger spear hand...also the katas Unsu and Gojushiho.
Also, if I may, nukite is often looked at only one way and it should not be. Folks forget the thumb in this strike. There are a variety of different ways you can use the thumb as the striking surface or weapon and NOT the extended fingers. Remember, the nukite hand formation in the older Okinawan arts was done differently than the Japanese do. It is less esthetically pleasing to look at. But, in my opinion, much more effective. |
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tatsujin
Orange Belt
Joined: 12 Oct 2021
Posts: 162
Styles: Ryusei-ha Ryukyu Kempo Karate-jutsu
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Thought of something else...and it might be of interest to you (or someone)...
Have you read the Bubishi? In it, one of the things that are shown are the "6 ji hands". Look familiar at all?
Might be especially familiar for anyone that knows the Tensho kata.
These are, as the story goes, from Monk Fist Boxing or Luohanquan. |
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aurik
KF Sempai
Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 500
Location: Denver, CO
Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:35 am Post subject: |
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We also use the boshiken (thumb weapon). Think of a palm-heel strike with the thumb tucked tightly against the palm, and the thumb is the weapon. This strike is typically done against the neck, throat, or chin. Shinjo sensei demonstrates this at about 0:45 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlJh-7ZnXbE. I've managed to do this once, and it went right through, although my thumb was sore for a week or so afterwards (right at the joint).
I don't foresee ever breaking boards using a nukite or sokusen geri. However, I think I'm almost at a point where I can break the 2x2's over the thigh, abs, and forearms (also demonstrated in the video).
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My Journey (So Far)
Shuri-Ryu 1996-1997 - Gokyu
Judo 1996-1997 - Yonkyu
Uechi-Ryu 2018-Present - Nidan
ABS Bladesmith 2021-Present - Apprentice |
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on the post.
