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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Thank you, MatsuShinshii for your kind and thoughtful words!!

My willingness to share comes from both of my Soke and Dai-Soke for they taught us that there's nothing to "hide" from any student. Shindokan is "for everyone"...and the were quite adamant about that point, and they didn't just preach it, they lived it daily.

I've seen/heard them speak/train those outside of Shindokan with such an open mind about anything and everything pertaining to Shindokan. There's no secrets; not with them!!


This is old school thinking. My Shinshii and his Shinshii always taught us to pass everything that was taught to us onto our students so that the art could continue as it was passed down to them. Ego and selfishness have no place in the arts.

The unwillingness to pass down all knowledge is a modern concept based on maintaining the need of the student to continue training. Morsels are dropped to keep them interested but the whole meal is never given.
This I believe has a lot to do with the arts degradation and the loss of the original techniques/applications.

If the student is worthy of your instruction, they are worthy of all of your instruction.

It's an honor to know that there are still so many other instructors upholding the traditional methods and passing down the true intent of their art. I can see how much reverence and respect you have for your Shinshii's teachings and it shows in your posts.

I respect your dedication to your instructors. It's the way it is supposed to be. They give us something a price could not be put on, passing on their teachings is the highest respect and honor we can give them. That and they live on through us.

Much respect Sensei8.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14301
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, your thoughtful and kind words haven't fell on closed eyes and/or mind; thank you, MatsuShinshii!!

I've never understood as to why so many instructors feel threatened!! The MA, imho, is a gift, and not something that can be owned, and not even by the governing body!! In that, we instructors have been given the responsibilities to teach, and not to harbor it into some private place that only the instructor, and the governing body can access at their discretion.

That which the instructor of the instructor has deemed as "secret", and has forbade the sharing of said techniques, is not theirs to do with as they feel fit, even though, to them, they believe that they are the owners of that which is, or should be, for every MAist.

Maybe, if it's even possible, during a time so long ago, that some instructor(s) have made certain techniques "secret", and have not allowed, for the sake of their student body, the teachings of "secret" techniques but for the few, and only at the anointed prescribed time, and no other time sooner.

The pages have been turned through the time...the orchestrate has been assembled...and all of the players have been made ready...YET, the instructor denies to do what the instructor has been sworn to do...teach.

Teach with the unbridled zest each and every technique within said style of the MA...freely!!




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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Again, your thoughtful and kind words haven't fell on closed eyes and/or mind; thank you, MatsuShinshii!!

I've never understood as to why so many instructors feel threatened!! The MA, imho, is a gift, and not something that can be owned, and not even by the governing body!! In that, we instructors have been given the responsibilities to teach, and not to harbor it into some private place that only the instructor, and the governing body can access at their discretion.

That which the instructor of the instructor has deemed as "secret", and has forbade the sharing of said techniques, is not theirs to do with as they feel fit, even though, to them, they believe that they are the owners of that which is, or should be, for every MAist.

Maybe, if it's even possible, during a time so long ago, that some instructor(s) have made certain techniques "secret", and have not allowed, for the sake of their student body, the teachings of "secret" techniques but for the few, and only at the anointed prescribed time, and no other time sooner.

The pages have been turned through the time...the orchestrate has been assembled...and all of the players have been made ready...YET, the instructor denies to do what the instructor has been sworn to do...teach.

Teach with the unbridled zest each and every technique within said style of the MA...freely!!





I could not agree with you more. My own lineage has been one that maintained the "family" art within their own family and only passed down to others what was deemed to be outside of the family art. "Secrets" if you will.

However through the generations this has changed to some degree.

Now it is more about giving information when information can be understood or when the student is deemed responsible and mature enough to accept it. However nothing is held back.

IMHO the only reason I hold anything back is because I have a doubt about the student. I generally talk to said student and wait to see if they improve and quell my doubts. If not I tell them to move on. However if my students are worthy, and they are not students for long if they are not, I do not hold anything back from them.

I actually look forward to the day when they have more knowledge and more skill than I and they surpass me. This means that I have done my job and have guaranteed transmission and passage to the next generation. To me that is really what this is all about.

There is an old saying, "you can't take it with you when you go". If the art is not passed on as a whole then it is taught as a watered down version.

In my opinion, if your teacher thought enough about the art and you as their student to teach everything to you, the least you can do is honor that and pass on what was taught in it's entirety to your students. This is not about ego. It's about the betterment of your students.

That is your legacy. This is how you are remembered. Not as the one who knew everything but your students are ill equipped because you never passed anything but mediocrity to them. These teachers are lost to history because they are not worth talking about.

If your students are the beneficiaries of your teachings they will appreciate it and pass it on, and in thru that, your legacy will be cemented in their students and their students and so on.

This I believe is the mark of a good teacher.

Holding back knowledge that was passed down to you, in the hopes that the art would be passed on through you, is pure ego. These teachers are easily forgotten because their students are not respected.

I was always taught that I would never be given the chance to test for Shodan until my Shinshii felt I was worthy of it because I was a reflection of not only him but of his Shinshii and the art itself.

Our students are a reflection of us. If your student is mediocre what does that say about you to those that only know your student?
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14301
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Again, your thoughtful and kind words haven't fell on closed eyes and/or mind; thank you, MatsuShinshii!!

I've never understood as to why so many instructors feel threatened!! The MA, imho, is a gift, and not something that can be owned, and not even by the governing body!! In that, we instructors have been given the responsibilities to teach, and not to harbor it into some private place that only the instructor, and the governing body can access at their discretion.

That which the instructor of the instructor has deemed as "secret", and has forbade the sharing of said techniques, is not theirs to do with as they feel fit, even though, to them, they believe that they are the owners of that which is, or should be, for every MAist.

Maybe, if it's even possible, during a time so long ago, that some instructor(s) have made certain techniques "secret", and have not allowed, for the sake of their student body, the teachings of "secret" techniques but for the few, and only at the anointed prescribed time, and no other time sooner.

The pages have been turned through the time...the orchestrate has been assembled...and all of the players have been made ready...YET, the instructor denies to do what the instructor has been sworn to do...teach.

Teach with the unbridled zest each and every technique within said style of the MA...freely!!





I could not agree with you more. My own lineage has been one that maintained the "family" art within their own family and only passed down to others what was deemed to be outside of the family art. "Secrets" if you will.

However through the generations this has changed to some degree.

Now it is more about giving information when information can be understood or when the student is deemed responsible and mature enough to accept it. However nothing is held back.

IMHO the only reason I hold anything back is because I have a doubt about the student. I generally talk to said student and wait to see if they improve and quell my doubts. If not I tell them to move on. However if my students are worthy, and they are not students for long if they are not, I do not hold anything back from them.

I actually look forward to the day when they have more knowledge and more skill than I and they surpass me. This means that I have done my job and have guaranteed transmission and passage to the next generation. To me that is really what this is all about.

There is an old saying, "you can't take it with you when you go". If the art is not passed on as a whole then it is taught as a watered down version.

In my opinion, if your teacher thought enough about the art and you as their student to teach everything to you, the least you can do is honor that and pass on what was taught in it's entirety to your students. This is not about ego. It's about the betterment of your students.

That is your legacy. This is how you are remembered. Not as the one who knew everything but your students are ill equipped because you never passed anything but mediocrity to them. These teachers are lost to history because they are not worth talking about.

If your students are the beneficiaries of your teachings they will appreciate it and pass it on, and in thru that, your legacy will be cemented in their students and their students and so on.

This I believe is the mark of a good teacher.

Holding back knowledge that was passed down to you, in the hopes that the art would be passed on through you, is pure ego. These teachers are easily forgotten because their students are not respected.

I was always taught that I would never be given the chance to test for Shodan until my Shinshii felt I was worthy of it because I was a reflection of not only him but of his Shinshii and the art itself.

Our students are a reflection of us. If your student is mediocre what does that say about you to those that only know your student?

Solid post MatsuShinshii!!

Both you and I are of the same old school teachings, and in that, we're quite similar in our mindset as well. To me, the credit for that that is within us is our Sensei's, your Shinshiii and my Dai-Soke, yet through their Sensei's as well. Our paths are straight, and not a winding path; true and unbridled!!

My Soke and Dai-Soke held back nothing from any of us, to my knowledge. So much so, that our Densho Scroll Volumes are available for viewing and learning from for any student of Shindokan. This is so because they both knew that they'll not live forever.

However, those Scroll Volumes must remain at the Hombu, and are not ever allowed to leave the Hombu. In short, read them, take notes, take pictures of them, but they're to remain in the secured room, and no one is allowed to be in that room unattended!! Why so strict? Those Scroll Volumes are for the future Shindokan students, and for them alone.

You come to my dojo, and depending just how long you remain my student, I'll teach you everything that I've been taught by Soke and Dai-Soke. And yes, I'd say, according to what I've read with those Densho Scroll Volumes, that I've been taught 95% of everything by Soke and Dai-Soke.

Why not the 100%?? They both passed away. Soke's death was expected considering his advanced age, while Dai-Soke's death caught us all off-guard with both of his strokes while he was in his 70's. Nonetheless, here's the final statement found on the last page of the final Volume...

"Now, search your heart; that's where you'll discover your personal betterment."

We've all interpreted that to simply mean, Shindokan is incomplete!! How so? We, add ourselves to Shindokan!! Our knowledge...our experiences...our soul...our heart!! Shindokan means, The House of the Heart Way! Follow your heart...follow your hearts desire...ones knowledge and experiences flow through your heart!!

Yet, how can this ever happen if we keep the cornerstone of Shindokan to ourselves?? WE CAN'T!! I can't own that which can't be owned; it's impossible!! Share and share alike FREELY...as free as the wind is!!

What is kept secret doesn't help our students!! Not at all!! We can convince ourselves that what we're keeping secret is for the good of the student body. Imho, that's the biggest hogwash that's ever been perpetrated on the student bodies all over the world!! That propaganda isn't welcomed...ever!!

When it's decreed by our Soke that Shindokan is for everyone, by God, that's exactly what he meant, and that's exactly what we must do without any ambiguity and/or reservations!!



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