Add KarateForums.com
Answer Questions You Have No Clue About With ChatGPT
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> TKD, TSD, Hapkido, and Korean Martial Arts
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29784
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:12 am    Post subject: Original Kwan History: Song Moo Kwan Reply with quote

Song Moo Kwan: "Pine Tree School" One of the original Kwans founded after WWII and before the Korean War.

The Song Moo Kwan (originally called the Song Do Kwan from what I’ve read) was initially founded in 1944 by Byung Jik Ro in Kaesung, at the Kwan Duck Jung archery school. Song Moo Kwan was the first of the original Kwans to open. He was forced to close the school three to four months later, as the Japanese were still occupying Korea at the time. Byung reopened the school in Dong Hung Dong in 1946. It closed again during the Korean War and reopened in 1953. Byung referred to his art as Kong Soo Do, as well.

Martial Heritage

According to Taekwondo Wiki, Byung became interested in the Martial Arts at the age of 12, when he observed techniques being practiced in local temples. Byung traveled to Japan and attended Chuo University as a young man, as many Koreans did during the occupation. The website states that Byung sought out Funakoshi, and studied Shotokan Karate under Funakoshi, along with Chung Do Kwan founder Won Kyuk Lee, earning his black belt. It goes on to state that Byung returned home to Kaesung in February 1944, “where he continued to create additional hand and foot techniques of his own.” If he was studying Shotokan that entire time period, then that’s around 8 years of Karate training prior to opening his own Kwan back in Korea. He then opened his school, which closed, and reopened again in 1946.

Taekwondo Wiki mentioned on it’s timeline that Byung also studied Kung Fu of some form, but I have not seen any other information on this.

Several accounts I’ve read stated that Byung’s classes started early, with an hour of warm-ups consisting of weightlifting and makiwara striking. One of Byung’s original students, Young Sup Lee (or Lee Young Sup), gives an account of what his early gradings were like: "Every six months, there was testing for promotion. Mainly one step sparring, three step sparring, free sparring and forms were used to decide promotions. But free sparring was for 4th Guep and higher, and 1st Dan required breaking a board. If these rules were broken, the Kwan Jang was very upset." (quoted from Taekwondo Wiki).

In July 1946, Byung Jik Ro, met with Won Kuk Lee of the Chung Do Kwan, Sang Sup Chun of the Yun Moo Kwan, and Byung In Yoon of the Chang Moo Kwan to discuss possible unification of these Kwans, but nothing came of the meeting. Hwang Kee of the Moo Duk Kwan was not at the meeting. Unknown if he wasn’t invited, or if he was invited but did not show up.

According to songmookwan.com, on May 25, 1953, Byung met with one delegate from each of the founding Kwans and seven representatives, held a conference, and established the Korean Kong Soo Do Association. Byung was elected is executive director, and interestingly, a Yudo (Judo) instructor, Young-Chu Cho, was elected as vice president. No president was elected. Songmookwan.com states that dissention set in, and the association dissolved.

I found this rather interesting: in the 1960’s, Byung’s son and future successor, Hee Sang Ro, began studying various Martial Arts. In 1963, Hee studied Hapkdio, and in 1967 he began studying Northern Shaolin Kung Fu. Taekwondo Wiki also mentions that he studied Karate and Kumdo. Hee moved to the US in 1976, and eventually became the second grandmaster of the Song Moo Kwan, which had been in the States since 1965. Hee included the study of all of the above arts in Song Moo Kwan, along with "Hosinsul," which I believe is just "self-defense" (at least, that is what we refer to it as in our school).

It appears that Byung was active throughout the history of the Kwans in unification efforts, first with the Korean Kong Soo Do Association, and later with the Korean Tae Soo Do Association on September 19, 1961. Byung eventually became the 4th president of the Korea Taekwondo Association. According to “A Modern History of Taekwondo,” written by Kang Won Sik (Song Moo Kwan) and Lee Kyong Myong, it states that Byung "…tried hard to promote Taekwondo such as creating the President’s Championships. He ran the Seoul Song Moo Kwan Central Dojang and taught Taekwondo to police officers. However, Ro Byung Jik still had a strong love of his own Kwan and he felt that Dan certification must not be issued by the KTA, but instead by the Kwans. The irony was that Ro Byung Jik was President of the KTA, but he loved his Song Moo Kwan more than the KTA." I’m guessing that Byung probably stayed with his own thoughts on teaching and promotion, and perhaps didn’t cobble onto the idea of standardization that the Kukkiwon and WTF would push. The same source states that Byung resigned his position as president a year later.

From that same source, it appears that on August 7, 1978, 10 Kwans finally compromised and closed the Kwan system, and Proclamation was signed that finalized "Kwan unification." For the Song Moo Kwan, this was signed by Chun Jung Woong. But by this time, Byung’s original Song Moo Kwan was living on in the US, amongst other areas. I haven’t been able to really find information in regards to a "split" like that which occurred with the Moo Duk Kwan.

It appears that the Song Moo Kwan has evolved quite a bit from Byung’s beginnings in Korea. It seemed like he didn’t shy away from his Karate origins, and his son really upped the ante by studying the other styles he did, and I’d be really interested in seeing what classes are like at the current Song Moo Kwan. I don’t know that I’d refer to it as “Korean Karate” like I do with Moo Duk Kwan/TSD, but it definitely appears to have gone beyond TKD. It seemed difficult to find as much information on the Song Moo Kwan, so I appreciate anything others can offer on this subject matter. I don’t know of any books authored by any Song Moo Kwan stylists, but if anyone else knows of some, I’ll add them to my collection.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16054
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent research, Brian through and through. Like Karate, TSD/TKD have quite the variety as to the different styles with their own rich history. Oftentimes, the mish-mash of styles, for me, seems to have so much in common with one another.

What is your TKD style?? I pray I'm not to amiss when I say that since your TKD follows the Chung Do Kwan style forms, that that's your core TKD style is Chung Do Kwan?!? Not sure what style of TKD that your Sun Yi's Academy teaches.

How similar is Soog Moo Kwan to your TKD style? Btw, I'm not referring to anything that might be of the ATA.



_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29784
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once heard our former instructor refer to our style as Chung Do Kwan, but I don't that there is really any connection to that original Kwan. Our system uses most of the ITF forms, but with no sine wave.

Something interesting I saw in my research, which I need to work back into the original piece, is that Song Moo Kwan appears to be Korean for Shotokan. This makes sense; Byung Jik Ro, having studied Shotokan in Japan, returns home and opened his school of Shotokan, but in Korean called it Song Moo Kwan.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Himokiri Karate
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 394

Styles: Boxing, Korean Karate

PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love hearing about the history of Tang Soo Do and Korean martial arts in general since this is officially my style. I am wondering if you have any information on Master Ko?
_________________
It begins with the knowledge that the severity of a strikes impact is amplified by a smaller surface area.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29784
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm assuming Master Ko was a Tang Soo Do practitioner? If so, he was probably associated with the Moo Duk Kwan at some point. I don't recall seeing his name yet, but I mainly was researching the origin history of the Kwans. But I'll keep his name in mind as I keep searching, and let you know what pops up. What can you tell me of Master Ko?
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Himokiri Karate
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 394

Styles: Boxing, Korean Karate

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
I'm assuming Master Ko was a Tang Soo Do practitioner? If so, he was probably associated with the Moo Duk Kwan at some point. I don't recall seeing his name yet, but I mainly was researching the origin history of the Kwans. But I'll keep his name in mind as I keep searching, and let you know what pops up. What can you tell me of Master Ko?


Master Ko was the teacher and mentor of Byong Yu who wrote the book Inside U. Master Ko was eccentric because he had a pet monkey, was a shoe repairman and pioneered the term " a black belt is a white belt that never gave up"

He was a Tang Soo Do master long before the word Taekwondo came in to existence and he met and taught Byong Yu in the 40s despite Byong Yu having disabilities. Master Ko was a tough, scary person of great aura but was very caring when it was all said and done.


During this time, it was still Japanese occupied Korea and life was tough and training was done towards achieving perfection. Moves had to be precise, powerful and with exceptional effort. Overall Master Ko had tons of wisdom and I thought maybe you heard of him.
_________________
It begins with the knowledge that the severity of a strikes impact is amplified by a smaller surface area.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29784
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not seen anything on Master Ko yet, but it's really hard finding good information at all.

If he was teaching in the 1940s, it would be helpful to know which Kwan he was associated with, if he was associated with one. If he called what he taught Tang Soo Do, then I wonder if he was a student of Hwang Kee's in the Moo Duk Kwan? I do have another similar article on the history of the Moo Duk Kwan, if you haven't read it yet. Most of it discusses Master Kee's origins, along with the split that occurred. I'm happy for any information anyone can provide to me, and I'll try to look into it. If I see anything, I'll be sure to share it with you. Any specific information you can provide will be helpful.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> TKD, TSD, Hapkido, and Korean Martial Arts All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Page 1 of 1
Coming soon: ChatGPT integration
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >