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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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 Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:50 pm Post subject: Paper Cutter Choke |
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A bit behind, but here's a tutorial we cut a couple of weeks ago. Here are some of the details behind positioning for the paper cutter choke as well as the choke itself. Also, we talk about some positioning that will keep your training partners safe while training.
Here's the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnLN0AJCT7Q
The nice thing about this choke is that it works with the heavier jiu jitsu gi as well as lighter karate is which makes it really multi purpose for different arts. Who here uses the paper cutter that does grappling arts? What about other arts that cross train with grappling? Do you have luck with it?
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJhRVuwbm__LwXPvFMReMww |
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you grabbing your own lapel? |
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Looks good Tallgeese
_________________
"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching
"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano |
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ShoriKid
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 900
Styles: Matsubyashi-Ryu, Okinawan Kempo, wrestling, bits of BJJ
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Our little crew, mostly PittbullJudoka and I, call this the Palhares choke, having picked it up at a Luiz Palhares seminar. Instead of our own collar, we grip the back of their collar or the back seam of the gi. Palhares taught picking up the gi grip just past the lapel and then slicing the forearm up from below. Very nice video. No one tell my brother I'm watching it for pointers.
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Kisshu fushin, Oni te hotoke kokoro. A demon's hand, a saint's heart. -- Osensei Shoshin Nagamine |
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:47 am Post subject: |
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If I do this choke, Im a fan of doing it in the reverse- grabbing the collar first before using the under grip (over works just as well too). The secondary grip (the one not on his neck) isnt of great importance (in terms of where you have to grab) so its easier to do that one last.
One thing I did notice is where Alex says "if I want to be a jerk when someone tucks their chin...." This is where I have to wholeheartedly disagree with that statement- if your face or chin gets smashed when someone is going for a choke, that is YOUR fault for putting it there.
Tucking the chin is NOT a valid defense for a chokehold. A proper choke generates so much pressure that it'll break your teeth and fracture your jaw until it also chokes you unconcious. Thats the reason we tell beginners not to tuck their jaw- its not that it doesnt help (obviously it does) but it relies on ignorance. What I mean by that is that if you tuck and get away with it you did so not so much because you did the right thing but because your opponent didnt know how to maximize his pressure. Once he learns how, tucking the chin will fail 100% of the time
Moral of the story- if you dont want your face smashed dont put it in front of your neck.... |
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| TJ-Jitsu wrote: |
If I do this choke, Im a fan of doing it in the reverse- grabbing the collar first before using the under grip (over works just as well too). The secondary grip (the one not on his neck) isnt of great importance (in terms of where you have to grab) so its easier to do that one last.
One thing I did notice is where Alex says "if I want to be a jerk when someone tucks their chin...." This is where I have to wholeheartedly disagree with that statement- if your face or chin gets smashed when someone is going for a choke, that is YOUR fault for putting it there.
Tucking the chin is NOT a valid defense for a chokehold. A proper choke generates so much pressure that it'll break your teeth and fracture your jaw until it also chokes you unconcious. Thats the reason we tell beginners not to tuck their jaw- its not that it doesnt help (obviously it does) but it relies on ignorance. What I mean by that is that if you tuck and get away with it you did so not so much because you did the right thing but because your opponent didnt know how to maximize his pressure. Once he learns how, tucking the chin will fail 100% of the time
Moral of the story- if you dont want your face smashed dont put it in front of your neck.... |
I don't disagree that they put themselves at risk by doing this...but I don't care. There's no reason for this kind of thing in training. It's how injuries occur. Point it out during the roll, explain it to the individual. So what happens if you don't crush their jaw, you lose the tap? So what. They need the situation explained so they don't get a false sense, but there's no reason to smash people in training like this. In a tournament? Different story. It's part of the game. But there's no reason to send someone to work tomorrow because they had a mental lapse just to feel better about a roll.
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http://alphajiujitsu.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJhRVuwbm__LwXPvFMReMww |
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| tallgeese wrote: |
| TJ-Jitsu wrote: |
If I do this choke, Im a fan of doing it in the reverse- grabbing the collar first before using the under grip (over works just as well too). The secondary grip (the one not on his neck) isnt of great importance (in terms of where you have to grab) so its easier to do that one last.
One thing I did notice is where Alex says "if I want to be a jerk when someone tucks their chin...." This is where I have to wholeheartedly disagree with that statement- if your face or chin gets smashed when someone is going for a choke, that is YOUR fault for putting it there.
Tucking the chin is NOT a valid defense for a chokehold. A proper choke generates so much pressure that it'll break your teeth and fracture your jaw until it also chokes you unconcious. Thats the reason we tell beginners not to tuck their jaw- its not that it doesnt help (obviously it does) but it relies on ignorance. What I mean by that is that if you tuck and get away with it you did so not so much because you did the right thing but because your opponent didnt know how to maximize his pressure. Once he learns how, tucking the chin will fail 100% of the time
Moral of the story- if you dont want your face smashed dont put it in front of your neck.... |
I don't disagree that they put themselves at risk by doing this...but I don't care. There's no reason for this kind of thing in training. It's how injuries occur. Point it out during the roll, explain it to the individual. So what happens if you don't crush their jaw, you lose the tap? So what. They need the situation explained so they don't get a false sense, but there's no reason to smash people in training like this. In a tournament? Different story. It's part of the game. But there's no reason to send someone to work tomorrow because they had a mental lapse just to feel better about a roll. |
Meh, I should have elaborated more when I made my statement. Im not of the mindset where "arrghh! train for the streets" in the sense that harder is better and "rude" things are therefore acceptable because "we're tough guys." It is acceptable for the person on top to fight hard for a submission, provided that his opponents safety takes priority over his own ego to get the tap. That said though, many times people are rolling and try to go for things quickly as hard rolling would have it. Sometimes during these rolls the person getting caught tucks their chin and feels the need to state it afterwards as if it weren't a legit choke or it was "rude" and almost as if to demand an apology. This is where I correct people, and guys can develop bad habits by relying on it and also by respecting it too much. Suddenly technical progress stops because the person defending need only tuck his chin and the person attacking doesnt attempt to generate more pressure less he be rude.
I used to have the same mindset when I was a purple belt. I'd take peoples backs and when I put a hand in their collar they'd inevitably tuck their chin to defend. I'd then not choke so as to not be rude, until I realized that my back attacks started to suffer in competition. Again the need to point out that tucking your chin will not help you happens very often, but one can be "nice" while still being "rude" as it were.
Part of training is taking care of your partners and a part of that is giving your partner time to tap. This requires two people though- Im sure you've seen several times where someone refuses to tap (say a lower rank sets up a sub on a higher rank) and the higher rank refuses to tap, nevermind plenty of time to do so, because of EGO- they're too good to tap. This is a situation where the person who gets injured is 100% at fault. Now the same thing occurs when you're applying a choke and someone tucks their chin- surely I dont just drop all my weight and pressure and attempt to snap it like a slim jim (I wouldnt have many students and training partners if I did) but I slowly start to apply the pressure over a period of ten seconds giving a significant amount of time for someone to tap. Theres also the "feel" of the submission as well- where you can apply "just enough" to the submission to take effect without really causing injury. This becomes quite the same then as any other submission you throw in a nice and gentle manner that gives your partner more than enough time to tap in all circumstances.... unless they're ego is preventing them from doing so. |
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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on the post.
