Positive Reinforcement Vs. Punishment

hobbitbob · Purple Belt

I was thinking about this subject this evening. On Monday and Wednesday nights I help out with the beginner class as a "warm up" for BB class later. One of the little ones was having severe "paying attention and trying hard" problems. My usual response is pushups. I tend to do the pushups with them, not only does this lesson the "you're a meany" factor, it is good training.

Anyway, after class, another BB and I were discussing this particular child, and his poor attitude, lack of effort, etc.. We resolved to speak with his parents on Monday night about whether karate might just not be a great idea at this time. he's 8, but very immature.
Anyway, on the way home I continued to cogitate and began to wonder how much good correction does him, and if we are indeed rewarding his bad behaviour by the attetnion. Might he be acting out in search of attention and receiving the reward (attetnion from instructors) that he wishes? The difficulty lies in the fact that he sets a poor example for brand new students, who see him moving at attention, punching off to the side,and just generally not trying. His seniors realize he is a poor student,and ignore him. Does anyone have any suggestions?
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There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm!

ramymensa · Black Belt

Now thats a problem. ou could expell him, but is it the best solution. Doing pushups ... we do it too ... it kinda works. Maybe you could talk yo him ... and try to realise why is he there for? Don't grade him ... keep him on a low rank till he starts doing the thingd the right way and explain why ... because his technique is flawed .. and this happened cause he didn't give a damn on training ... Or ... It's indeed a nasty situation ... Any adivices from the others?

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World Shotokan Karate

Withers M.A.A. · Brown Belt

I've been at both types of schools over the years. I will say the schools with the negative reinforement had tougher students for the most part. I think to be successful you need to find some type of happy medium. People need to feel good about training yet get the discipline from being reprimanded when they do something wrong. Plus, most people expect that type of treatment from the Martial Arts when they first join.
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2nd Degree black belt in Kenpo Karate and Tae Kwon Do. 1997 NASKA competitor-2nd place Nationally in Blackbelt American Forms. Firearms activist!

hobbitbob · Purple Belt

The individual in question is still quite new. He's been there but four months, and has never graded.I honestly think he's there because his parents feel it would be "good to have him in Karate." we are probably going to talk to mom and suggest that he stop for now, and perhaps try again later. If we were a "Mile High Kuh-ruddy" type dojo perhaps things would be different, but we aren't a babysitting service, and the fact that other 8 year olds are able to pay attention and train makes me think that this child doesn't belong there.
The caveats to my opnions are :
-I don't have children, therefore I am not as comfortable with evaluating child behaviour as those who are parents.
-I am fairly demanding on students, and on myself as well.
Our sensei, who owns the school, agrees with those of us who think that we are merely rewarding poor behaviour with attention. The sole voice of dissent is from one of the instructor staff who happens to be a mother of four children. THis is why I wonder if the opinion the rest of us hold may be incorrect. None of us, except for Sensei, have kids and the experience of dealing with kids.
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There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm!

ramymensa · Black Belt

The problem is that MA is for discipline and hard work. Everybody should know that and obbey the rule. Misbehaviour is not allowed. parents should realise for baby sitting there are a lot of other options

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World Shotokan Karate

oot_man · White Belt

One thing you can ask the parents if he or she is the same way in school?
i have a simular case in my Dojang. She wont rank till she acts right!! peirod and she knows that.
also ask the parents if they have check to see if the child has Attention Deficate Disorder. medication can help with the attention thing. I have had a student that was on riddlin he one night he didi not take it and well... that was is last night at my class. he has been the onluy one i have thrown out.

IAMA_chick · Purple Belt

positive reinforcemnt is WAY better for me and anyone i have known.
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Tae Kwon Do
15-years old
purple--belt

SaiFightsMS · KF VIP

hobbitbob we had a similar situation with a young girl one time. What was finally done with her was to make her set out the class. Just to sit in the back of the room and watch. She was warned ahead of time that next time you do this be prepared to sit and watch.

She has much more of a reaction to having to sit and watch than she did to any of the other things that were tried. She actually sit and cried a bit. But class went on.

tommarker · Black Belt

MORE BEATINGS!!!!!!

Sometimes I just wanna whack people who don't listen with a shinai

(and I'm the softie in the club)
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I'm no longer posting here. Adios.

hobbitbob · Purple Belt

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