|
|
| Author |
Message |
sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
|
 Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:15 pm Post subject: Practicality MA... |
 |
|
maybe...but for whom??!!
The one thing, not just anything, but just that one thing that has rubbed me wrong ever since I heard the term "Practical" whatever the style of the MA, I fully supported it because I believed, and still believe, in the methodology and ideology of "Practical".
Why??
The opposite of "Practical" was the "Impractical"; effectiveness over the ineffective. That's what all MAist should be striving for each and everyday of the MA journey...PRACTICAL EFFECTIVENESS!!
Then the coin slowly started to turn over the "Practical" term in such a way that there were two camps of division; as bright and blinding as the Sun.
The contradictions amaze me to no end. Some, not all, who are proponents of "Practical" whatever, will criticize vehemently against the very MA methodologies/ideologies that they practice daily with their CI, while on at the very same moment, they'll be speaking negatively; akin to someone speaking with forked-tongue.
"That's [Insert Technique Here] isn't practical for these reason(s)!!" However, on a daily basis, that same practitioner is training in that very same technique(s) and the like with their CI.
Either IT is or it ISN'T; there's no in-between!! Can't train one way, then almost on the very same note, speak against that which they train in daily with their CI.
I'm not speaking about when one discards said methodology/ideology/techniques totally for whatever their reason(s) might be. But when one speaks ill-will about a technique, for example, high side kick, then, while in class with their CI, they're practicing that very same high side kick, just after ripping its practicality to shreds; quite hypocritical. Did that very same practitioner voice their true opinions about that very same high side kick to THEIR OWN CI????
Pick one...Practical or impractical...one way or another...either it is or it isn't...THEN, be true to it, and not pretending about it.
Imho!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| One can “impractical” techniques for practical purposes though. I spent a few months training with a RyuTe Renmei group one summer. We did high kicks, spinning kicks, etc. during line drills, which aren’t part of the curriculum nor used in any other context. Immediately after saying the kick he wanted us to do, he’d ALWAYS say “for flexibility and agility purposes only!” I never saw anyone kick above their own waist nor do any spinning/jumping kicks in sparring there, so I guess the sensei sufficiently made his point |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hoshin
Yellow Belt
Joined: 11 Apr 2018
Posts: 32
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
if i am reading your post correctly, this is in part something i have thought a lot about. the practicality of any given technique or style. i came up with a different answer then yourself. i didnt get "is or isnt " i got ..it depends. and it depends on a lot of different things: the person, the style, the training methodology, the persons occupational choices and power dynamics ect, ect.
many years ago a mystic said "every person is a star". this stuck with me. that every person is their own universe. every universe will have its own unique laws and/or truth. their own reality. no one can say what is true without looking at the reality in which that truth may or may not exist.
thats a little bit cryptic but its what i came up with.
_________________
A handful of men, inured to war, proceed to certain victory, while on the contrary numerous armies of raw and undisciplined troops are but multitudes of men dragged to slaughter.
-Flavius Renatus Vegetius- |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
If I speak strongly against, for example, Tuite, and all that it embodies, here at KF often, and then when I'm at my dojo teaching Tuite daily and speaking strongly positively about Tuite, and all that it embodies, I believe that I'm quite the hypocritical.
In my dojo, I believe that Tuite is "Practical", and to this point in my MA journey, and I've been on the floor quite a long time, no one has yet convinced me otherwise concerning the methodology and ideology of Tuite. Not before, not now, and more than likely, not in the foreseen future.
Hypothetically speaking...
With that in mind, imagine me, and you knew me outside of KF, and you read post after post from me, here at KF, speaking strongly against everything that is Tuite, you'd lose respect for me across the board, and hopefully, and in a kind way, you'd reveal my indiscretions.
So, what's "Practical" to me, now, becomes Impractical, but tomorrow, at my dojo, it becomes "Practical" once again. I've not made my mind up yet, I'm a liar, not only to myself, but towards though that I both know and those I train.
Pick one; can't have cake too!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JR 137 wrote: |
| I never saw anyone kick above their own waist nor do any spinning/jumping kicks in sparring there, so I guess the sensei sufficiently made his point |
I used to be skeptical of spinning kicks. I still am skeptical of the more showey and complicated ones. But spinning kicks do have their uses. Perhaps more in free sparring than point sparring though.
Here's one of my favourite tricks. I come in with a front kick. Nothing fancy. As basic as it gets. Or a roundhouse will do. Again the simplest kind. If my opponent manages to block it, chances are they will try to knock me by my kicking leg into a spin so that they can get to my side to counter. I take advantage of any spin they put on me and just do a spinning kick with the other leg. Usually high, on the basis that as they've literally only just blocked my low kick, chances are their guard is still fairly low by the time my other foot comes round high. I liken this principle to a wonky floor board. You push one end down and the other end pops up, so you move to push that end down and the first end pops back up. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| I never saw anyone kick above their own waist nor do any spinning/jumping kicks in sparring there, so I guess the sensei sufficiently made his point |
I used to be skeptical of spinning kicks. I still am skeptical of the more showey and complicated ones. But spinning kicks do have their uses. Perhaps more in free sparring than point sparring though.
Here's one of my favourite tricks. I come in with a front kick. Nothing fancy. As basic as it gets. Or a roundhouse will do. Again the simplest kind. If my opponent manages to block it, chances are they will try to knock me by my kicking leg into a spin so that they can get to my side to counter. I take advantage of any spin they put on me and just do a spinning kick with the other leg. Usually high, on the basis that as they've literally only just blocked my low kick, chances are their guard is still fairly low by the time my other foot comes round high. I liken this principle to a wonky floor board. You push one end down and the other end pops up, so you move to push that end down and the first end pops back up. |
However, did, at anytime, one see someone teaching a spinning kick on the floor, then see that very same person speak negatively about spinning kicks once that person was off the floor, and away from the dojo??
That's what I'm trying to say, and I've witnessed this many times during my MA career; it disgusts me to no end.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sensei8 wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| I never saw anyone kick above their own waist nor do any spinning/jumping kicks in sparring there, so I guess the sensei sufficiently made his point |
I used to be skeptical of spinning kicks. I still am skeptical of the more showey and complicated ones. But spinning kicks do have their uses. Perhaps more in free sparring than point sparring though.
Here's one of my favourite tricks. I come in with a front kick. Nothing fancy. As basic as it gets. Or a roundhouse will do. Again the simplest kind. If my opponent manages to block it, chances are they will try to knock me by my kicking leg into a spin so that they can get to my side to counter. I take advantage of any spin they put on me and just do a spinning kick with the other leg. Usually high, on the basis that as they've literally only just blocked my low kick, chances are their guard is still fairly low by the time my other foot comes round high. I liken this principle to a wonky floor board. You push one end down and the other end pops up, so you move to push that end down and the first end pops back up. |
However, did, at anytime, one see someone teaching a spinning kick on the floor, then see that very same person speak negatively about spinning kicks once that person was off the floor, and away from the dojo??
That's what I'm trying to say, and I've witnessed this many times during my MA career; it disgusts me to no end.
|
Ah, I see what you mean.
No would be the answer to that specific question. But I have heard our chief instructor criticise some techniques that are in our syllabus. We're part of a wider organisation that sets our grading criteria. That includes the details of our techniques at a basic level (it's up to senior instructors to add their own experience to it). A very few times, I've heard our instructor say things like 'the book says this but nobody is going to look at you negatively if you do it like this instead'. Basically a polite way of criticising what 'the book' says. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| I never saw anyone kick above their own waist nor do any spinning/jumping kicks in sparring there, so I guess the sensei sufficiently made his point |
I used to be skeptical of spinning kicks. I still am skeptical of the more showey and complicated ones. But spinning kicks do have their uses. Perhaps more in free sparring than point sparring though.
Here's one of my favourite tricks. I come in with a front kick. Nothing fancy. As basic as it gets. Or a roundhouse will do. Again the simplest kind. If my opponent manages to block it, chances are they will try to knock me by my kicking leg into a spin so that they can get to my side to counter. I take advantage of any spin they put on me and just do a spinning kick with the other leg. Usually high, on the basis that as they've literally only just blocked my low kick, chances are their guard is still fairly low by the time my other foot comes round high. I liken this principle to a wonky floor board. You push one end down and the other end pops up, so you move to push that end down and the first end pops back up. |
However, did, at anytime, one see someone teaching a spinning kick on the floor, then see that very same person speak negatively about spinning kicks once that person was off the floor, and away from the dojo??
That's what I'm trying to say, and I've witnessed this many times during my MA career; it disgusts me to no end.
|
Ah, I see what you mean.
No would be the answer to that specific question. But I have heard our chief instructor criticise some techniques that are in our syllabus. We're part of a wider organisation that sets our grading criteria. That includes the details of our techniques at a basic level (it's up to senior instructors to add their own experience to it). A very few times, I've heard our instructor say things like 'the book says this but nobody is going to look at you negatively if you do it like this instead'. Basically a polite way of criticising what 'the book' says. |
Nothing wrong, for the most part, with the CI criticizing the syllabus, UNLESS, the CI says one thing, then does another thing, without batting an eyelash. Again, one way or another, but not both at the same time.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JazzKicker
Orange Belt
Joined: 07 Aug 2017
Posts: 174
Location: NJ
Styles: Hapkido, JKD, TSD
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
One of the lessons of the (Asian) martial arts is that things aren't necessarily black or white. Yin and Yang are complementary (and there's that pesky little dot of each in the other).
People do a lot of things, particularly in traditional martial arts, that aren't practical. Not just techniques, but the whole way of practicing. If you took all that stuff out, it would look like the old footage from Bruce Lee's backyard.
For example, I'd be the first to admit that forms are inefficient, impractical, contrived. I still practice them for exercise and moving meditation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JazzKicker wrote: |
For example, I'd be the first to admit that forms are inefficient, impractical, contrived. I still practice them for exercise and moving meditation. |
So forms are practical then. You have found a good practical use for them.
Here's a thing about martial arts and their practicality. Very often, some folks have an extremely narrow criteria for deciding if something is practical. Often it is as specific as, has it been proven to work in the ring with whatever competition rules apply.
But 'practical' extends far beyond that. Is it practical against multiple drunken idiots that can't actually fight their way out of a wet paper bag, but are aggressive enough and number enough to pose a threat. Or is it practical against someone that doesn't really want a fight and doesn't deserve to get hurt, but has 'flipped out' and just needs to be safely restrained until they calm down. Or outside of fighting altogether, is it practical for keeping you fit and supple and mentally focused. There are many different definitions of 'practical'. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
on the post.
