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cross
Black Belt
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1904
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| baronbvp wrote: |
| I've noticed it can be a little difficult to concentrate on the conversation when you are standing passively coiled like a spring, waiting for a sudden strike. |
Heh, good point. Kind of takes the "passive" out of the stance, doesn't it?
Another option along with the passive stance would be to back up, if you have room. |
Has i mentioned previously, its not a "stance" in the traditional sense of the word. Meaning its not static, or fixed. Standing still infront of the aggressor with your hands up is a rather poor execution of the passive stance. (although sometimes you have no other option if your pinned to a wall etc)
Understanding the dynamics of violence will give you alot of information about what is and isnt applicable. The passive stance is most often used in conjuction with slow slightly rearward, circling footwork. Circling to whatever side will avoid their power side (if you have the opertunity to see which one that is). How often do you think someone with aggressive intent towards you will stand still talking to you at a certain distance? They might if you allow it, but by moving backwards yourself, they have 2 choices:
1. leave you alone. or. 2. Keep moving forward to pester/attack you.
If they are moving forward then obviously your de escalation tactics arnt working for you at this point, so either you start saying things that help the situation, or expect to be attacked. This is when the passive "stance" is used at its best. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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baronbvp
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 1151
Location: Berlin, Germany
Styles: Muay Thai, boxing, JKD/MMA, Shorin Ryu, military combat arts, fencing, archery
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| cross wrote: |
Has i mentioned previously, its not a "stance" in the traditional sense of the word. Meaning its not static, or fixed. Standing still infront of the aggressor with your hands up is a rather poor execution of the passive stance. (although sometimes you have no other option if your pinned to a wall etc)
Understanding the dynamics of violence will give you alot of information about what is and isnt applicable. The passive stance is most often used in conjuction with slow slightly rearward, circling footwork. Circling to whatever side will avoid their power side (if you have the opertunity to see which one that is). How often do you think someone with aggressive intent towards you will stand still talking to you at a certain distance? They might if you allow it, but by moving backwards yourself, they have 2 choices:
1. leave you alone. or. 2. Keep moving forward to pester/attack you.
If they are moving forward then obviously your de escalation tactics arnt working for you at this point, so either you start saying things that help the situation, or expect to be attacked. This is when the passive "stance" is used at its best. |
Yep, good point. I think we both realize that but got sidetracked with details. The times I have used this there were people, cars, tables/chairs around, etc, so that sort of drove my positioning.
Another factor I've seen is some people get even more irritated or agitated when they feel you are trying to calm them down, especially if there's an audience. That's usually a sign it's time to get more help.
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Only as good as I make myself be, only as bad as I let myself be.
Martial arts are like kinetic chess. Your move. |
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gzk
Blue Belt
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 308
Styles: Shootfighting, BJJ
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:49 am Post subject: |
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This is something we drill a lot, so I'll contribute a bit of that...
The pre-fight stance I've been taught is to have the hands slightly out, palms pointed down, strong side almost imperceptively back. Likewise, feet are basically in a normal everyday non-fighting stance, strong side almost imperceptively back. This means that you can easily move into your "question" stance, or your fighting stance, if the opponent kicks things off unexpectedly early. Basically, pre-fight is all about the sell, selling the idea that you are no threat and aren't interested in fighting.
The "question" stance, I should probably also mention, when asking your engaging question, your feet should almost be in a fighting stance, not as long nor wide, and the knees shouldn't be perceptively bent. Your jab hand is probably touching or almost touching your attacker since they've triggered your question by hitting your fence, and this is good for orienting yourself distance-wise. Your strong hand is back and your weight is back, loaded for a strong initial shot (but don't clench the fist!). Your palms are up and shoulders shrugging in the classic "I dunno!" pose, which also can protect your chin slightly in the event that your opponent kicks off in the middle of your question, though you shouldn't tuck the chin in yet.
Then, fire your shot and get ready to fight!
* Fence
* Question
* GO!
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Battling biomechanical dyslexia since 2007 |
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NightOwl
Black Belt
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1097
Location: Lost on the West Coast
Styles: Working on Judo and BJJ
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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When I feel that things might get out of hand, I stand on one leg and strike the 'Karate Kid' stance while letting out a high pitch yell.
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Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
~Theodore Roosevelt |
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baronbvp
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 1151
Location: Berlin, Germany
Styles: Muay Thai, boxing, JKD/MMA, Shorin Ryu, military combat arts, fencing, archery
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| NightOwl wrote: |
| When I feel that things might get out of hand, I stand on one leg and strike the 'Karate Kid' stance while letting out a high pitch yell. |
 I make my eyes huge and wild, then go psycho-John-Cusack on the guy. (Think Grosse Point Blank or The Sure Thing.)
gzk, great post. Not many people train that stuff. How else do you guys train for real situations?
_________________
Only as good as I make myself be, only as bad as I let myself be.
Martial arts are like kinetic chess. Your move. |
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learning kempo-karate
Orange Belt
Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 158
Location: Big Island of Hawaii
Styles: Universal Kempo-Karate, Shotokan Karate, Judo
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Hello, The right posturing will also help you when you go to court. Also by saying I do not want to fight..out loud for others to hear...will help you in court too (make sure you make some kind of eye contact with the witness standing nearby too).
When someone wants to fight you and you have a passive stands...it is you, who are more prepare..it does not let the other person know you are ready.
Great topic.......and info's here........Aloha |
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gzk
Blue Belt
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 308
Styles: Shootfighting, BJJ
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| learning kempo-karate wrote: |
Hello, The right posturing will also help you when you go to court. Also by saying I do not want to fight..out loud for others to hear...will help you in court too (make sure you make some kind of eye contact with the witness standing nearby too).
When someone wants to fight you and you have a passive stands...it is you, who are more prepare..it does not let the other person know you are ready.
Great topic.......and info's here........Aloha |
That's right, before you ask the question, you should back away and give them the opportunity to disengage, too.
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Battling biomechanical dyslexia since 2007 |
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gzk
Blue Belt
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 308
Styles: Shootfighting, BJJ
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| baronbvp wrote: |
gzk, great post. Not many people train that stuff. How else do you guys train for real situations? |
Thanks 
A couple of the drills we do are:
* Partner stands a few metres away holding a kickshield to cover their torso, and aggresively advances on you. When you see them coming, you move into pre-fight stance. When they move within range, front-kick them, jump back well out of range and use a verbal fence - pointing and shouting at them to back off, looking as psycho as possible - to cause adrenal-dump and allow them to disengage.
* Partner starts at close range, wearing Thai pads on each forearm and advances on you, speaking aggressively, using "fightin' words". You maintain a fence with your pre-fight stance and back away, attempting verbal de-escalation. If they persist, ask your engaging question and strike hard at one or more of the Thai pads. The strike can be anything, but we were given the guideline of using a right cross for relatively slowly advancing attackers, and a right elbow for quickly advancing attackers.
We do a few others to deal with when someone is ground-and-pounding you, or throwing a haymaker at you.
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Battling biomechanical dyslexia since 2007 |
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baronbvp
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 1151
Location: Berlin, Germany
Styles: Muay Thai, boxing, JKD/MMA, Shorin Ryu, military combat arts, fencing, archery
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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We should all train this way. Your training would make great material for an article. 
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Only as good as I make myself be, only as bad as I let myself be.
Martial arts are like kinetic chess. Your move. |
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on the post.
