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Iron Arahat
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 08 Aug 2001
Posts: 846
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:24 pm    Post subject: Pro Fighters -- Really? Reply with quote

I went to the School of Hard Knocks event here in Calgary this past Friday on the request of one of my friends who I will be cornering in his first bout this August in New York. He had asked me to come and see the fights, as he was interested in taking a fight after his debut in NYC, he is boxing, but is thinking about taking on a MMA fight.

I was surprised when the "pro" bouts came around. I am not sure how some of these guys were considered "pro", as it was evident that they had very little fight experience, and to be honest some of them I would be embarrassed to step into the ring looking that out of shape. I am curious if local MMA events all around North America, if the "pro" events have some people that have really no business in a ring let alone calling themselves a pro.

Fights were entertaining, but that is only because these guys came out and threw punches like your typical bar brawler and that most the fights ended fast. I also have to say that tapping out due to strikes is pretty lame...
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15712
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One must try to remember when concerning professional athletes is that once a person is being paid to play; that payment doesn't guarantee that that person will be any good.


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Wolfman08
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Big Red Country
Styles: Cuong Nhu and MCMAP

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition to what Sensei said:

Quote:
Fights were entertaining, but that is only because these guys came out and threw punches like your typical bar brawler and that most the fights ended fast.


I know a guy (long story, don't ask) who "trained" another guy for a local MMA event. The training consisted of lots of weightlifting, and a little bit of grappling, and nothing else really. Neither have been in any serious fights (ring or otherwise), and neither had watched any of the local fights. They didn't even know that (at that time) the organization they were going to go compete at wasn't sanctioned with the state boxing commission, making the whole thing pretty illegal.
The guy who fought got the crapped kicked out of him (metaphorically speaking, since he was tapped out half way through the first round). He went back two months later without working out once (and maybe being in a few horseplay-style fights) since then, and pulled a win out of his butt. Last I heard he had a 3-1 record, and hardly ever works out.
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
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Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2622
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Pro" simply means that they are being paid to fight, nothing more, nothing less. If your parents are "sponsoring" your fight, you are a "professional" fighter at that point. These sorts of fighting events are put on mostly for crowd entertainment and less for true competition. The true competition comes after the good fighters have been sifted out of the mess of horrible fighters in these sorts of events.

I have watched some pretty pathetic local fights before back in Illinois, but what can you really expect when you're surrounded by cornfields and binge drinking in the middle of them is the average idea of a Junior High Homecoming Party? I actually heard the announcement of "self-trained fighter" and couldn't believe my eyes when into the ring steps this kid with a farmers' tan who put his hands up like the Notre Dame Irishman (I'm not even exaggerating) to fight someone from the only good MMA gym in the state. He stepped in, threw a huge haymaker, got taken down and squirmed around for a while before tapping to a rear naked choke.
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Adamo
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 43

Styles: Taekwondo, Judo

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's funny Wastelander since I'm from Peoria. You described it correctly. Cornfields and crazy drinking.

What fights did you go to? Where they put on by Pekin Martial Arts Academy? Somebody else?
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tallgeese
KF VIP

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6862
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are different levels of "pro" in most sports.

Taking boxing for example. How many pro boxers ever make it past a club level. Not to many really, but they are out there, grinding away cash at all sorts of venues. Most would look pathetic next to guys who earn ppv bucks.

Same with mma. The bigger organization, the bigger the venue, usually the better talant one can see.

It's not something that only mma fans have to deal with. It's everywhere.
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ps1
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 3025
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
One must try to remember when concerning professional athletes is that once a person is being paid to play; that payment doesn't guarantee that that person will be any good.



This is very true. In many states, there are no regulations that govern what is necessary to fight pro. In ohio, where I live, a fighter must first complete 5 amateur fights before being allowed to become a pro. For the most part, the rule is effective. Most people aren't willing to jump in the ring more than once or twice just to find out how out of shape they are. That number decreases significantly when they find out they aren't going to get paid for the experience. Even at that, I'm rarely impressed by the local pro circuit.
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mindsedgeblade
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 233
Location: Philadelphia
Styles: TSD

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I caught part of the UFC "Fight for the Troops" last night. (It's two weeks old so no spoilers)

I saw the Barry-Beltran fight, and had the same reaction as the OP. "Really!?" The announcers kept blabbing about Barry's kickboxing experience, but he barely threw any strikes, except for that eye gouge and beating Beltran's leg to a pulp. And Beltran's "dirty boxing" consisted entirely of pinning Barry to the fence. No effectual strikes or takedowns. I don't know anything about those two fighters, but I'd rather watch our two 11yo BBs slug it out than two out of shape goons dance around and hug it out. I hope the other matchups were better than that.

http://www.ufc.com/event/fight-for-the-troops-2#/fight/Pat-Barry-Joey-Beltran
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Groinstrike
Pre-Black Belt
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 923
Location: Richland County
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Krav Maga, Jeet Kune Do, BJJ M

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mindsedgeblade wrote:
I caught part of the UFC "Fight for the Troops" last night. (It's two weeks old so no spoilers)

I saw the Barry-Beltran fight, and had the same reaction as the OP. "Really!?" The announcers kept blabbing about Barry's kickboxing experience, but he barely threw any strikes, except for that eye gouge and beating Beltran's leg to a pulp. And Beltran's "dirty boxing" consisted entirely of pinning Barry to the fence. No effectual strikes or takedowns. I don't know anything about those two fighters, but I'd rather watch our two 11yo BBs slug it out than two out of shape goons dance around and hug it out. I hope the other matchups were better than that.

http://www.ufc.com/event/fight-for-the-troops-2#/fight/Pat-Barry-Joey-Beltran


Yes Pat Barry did not throw to many strikes in that fight, but the strikes he did throw were accurate and powerful. Pat Barry is a very high level kickboxer just youtube some of his K-1 fights. Its hard to know when both guys gameplans just cancel each other out but this does happen occasionally.
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Iron Arahat
Red Belt
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Joined: 08 Aug 2001
Posts: 846
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a sad display...really I think whoever trains these "professionals" should be embarrassed. I can understand in amateur bouts that guys may be out of shape, and that their skills aren't polished (like turning your head away when throwing a punch for fear of getting hit), but to be a pro, that is really sad.

I wouldn't let an amateur who isn't ready take a fight, I am surprised that people will back these "pros". I would say some coaches are to blame as well as promoters...
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