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Blade13
Purple Belt
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Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 582


PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2002 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I saw that! It was awesome. I already believe in chi, but that strengthened my belief!
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tessone
Green Belt
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Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 395
Location: Galesburg, IL

PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2002 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's important to note that science makes no claims on truth. Science strives to obtain descriptions of phenomena that seem to fit the data, with the tacit assumption that those descriptions may (and should be!) superceded by better descriptions later.

Therefore, the supernatural simply does not fall within the realm of science. A claim must be falsifiable to be scientifically testable. The claim "Ki/Chi can heal people" isn't scientifically testable. The claim "Using ki/chi, one can heat a towel to 220F" might be, but the answer science might arrive at is likely to deal in physiological terms, rather than deal with ki/chi.

That said, I certainly believe in ki, but not as some supernatural force. Rather, I think it's a focusing of one's own powers, through controlled breathing, focus, manipulation of pressure points, etc.

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Benjymaan
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Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 7
Location: TX USA

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2002 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a T'ai Chi practitioner and i obviously i have found the powers that T'ai Chi brings. Has anybody seen an iron cloak performed?
It is a lockdown of all the pressure points in the body, in most kung-fu systems the test for the iron clock or steel jacket is to be hit in the solar plexus at full power with the end of a Staff. Legends claim of ancient masters having a steel jacket so strong that sword blades could not pierce the skin.
The second item of "proof" : If you know any high level Kung Fu practitioner ask him to demonstrate "Jeng" power to you, or Shock power as it is sometimes called, This is the power behind Bruce Lee's one inch punch, although he practised it badly as he only saw a kung fu master perform it and tried to imitate it. this power should make the opponent feel as if they were struck by lightning, it is used to direct chi into the opponent beneath their skin and inside the body causing death, basically it absorbs the chi behind the opponenets attack and directs it back at them, an unbeatable offensive technique
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ckdstudent
Green Belt
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Joined: 09 May 2002
Posts: 491
Location: Surrey, England
Styles: Choi Kwang Do

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2002 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually scientists believe that what they call theories are just that, theories. The media is the one who claims that all of this stuff is fact and claim that scientists 'prove' claims.

Houdini could take just about any power of punch to his stomach and not even flinch, its basically because the stomach is a muscle, as is the diaphragm. If you tense the muscle then it will become incredibly solid. I can do this and take side kicks to the stomach, and I don't claim to have any exceptional stomach muscle, and I certainly don't claim to have any chi.

Have you ever seen Bruce Lee's one inch punch? I'd say that from the look of its effects its similar to being struck by lightning. The actual mechanics of it involve driving your entire bodyweight and muscle power behind a single, very short range technique and concentrating everything into the impact.

Just about any 'new age' treatment seems to alleviate pain and be somewhat effective, so long as they're performed on people who believe in the treatment. Skeptics very rarely, if ever, receive any benefit. I'm not saying that they're not beneficial, just maybe the benefit is largely psychological. In the middle ages 'healers' would give people bottles of coloured water to cure their ills, and there are accounts of miraculous recoveries because of this. Strangely no one seems eager to report the times when it doesn't work.

Isn't 220F somewhere around the boiling point of water? Have you ever been touched by boiling water? I could be wrong though, I was brought up on Celsius and Kelvin.

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tessone
Green Belt
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Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 395
Location: Galesburg, IL

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2002 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The boiling point of water is 212F.

What ckdstudent says about science is exactly right. Anyone with training in scientific methodology knows that science makes no claims to truth. It simply seeks the simplest, most perspicuous explaination for the phenomena. If it made claims to knowing the truth about the natural world, the scientific method would be worthless.


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Chris Tessone
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Phantasmatic
Purple Belt
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Joined: 21 Dec 2001
Posts: 586
Location: Dunlap, Illinois
Styles: Goju-Ryu, Shorei-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Kobudo, Judo, Shin-Kage Ryu

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2002 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said tessone, I believe yuo are correct. I know my Physics teacher would beg to difer but he is just blinded by his knowlegde of Physics.

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