Pulling Guard

Tempest · Green Belt

The basics are simple? Then why do so many of my white belts do them wrong for months at a time?

Seriously though, the main problem is that most people do at least SOME of the fundamental movements of the art poorly, even after they are no longer white belts.

This tends to lead to the idea that they need to add some degree of complication to compensate for not doing the fundamentals well.

For an example of someone who does the fundamentals REALLY well, take a look at this video of Rener rolling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKVsqjE2lCs&t=12s

Realize that 90% of what he is doing is on their white-blue belt curriculum. He just does it so well, that none of them can stop him.
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TJ-Jitsu · Blue Belt

Tempest · Green Belt

Well, the title of the videos says black belts. And I have seen Rener do the same thing to guys that win world titles.

Here is him beating Jason Miller back in '03 at a competition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZkcFdTWaaY
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Think first, act second, and stop getting the two confused.

tallgeese · Black Belt

Hey all, sorry for the absence the last few months.

This is a subject near and dear to me on multiple levels. First up, I think any martial arts school that wants to experiment with grappling should do just that- experiment. I think that there are better and worse ways to this, the best being to bring in someone who actually is skilled in the art they are dabbling in. In the case of the guard, bring in a BJJ guy to discuss the how, and most importantly, the WHY. This is the largest overlook in most of these incidents.

BJJ is one of the few arts that actually has a good answer to what to do once you end up on your back in a fight. The guard is our way to control distance in this situation. A critical component of any fighting. Maybe THE critical component. Once established, it lets up keep an opponent out of range as with an open guard, or close distance via breaking posture with the closed guard. Each has a set of tactics that allows a practitioner to fight at that range or regain his footing.

Now, how does that apply to a non-grappling art that may be experimenting? That's up to those fighters. But they need a foundation from an experienced guy or gal.

As to the "why pull guard" question. It's largely one of two things:

1) a competitive tactic that puts a good guard player in position to capitalize on the point reward for sweeps. It awards the same amount of points as a takedown. I don't understand why competitors wouldn't capitalize on a tactic that awards the same points as another BUT from a position that we train from far more often. This is perfectly valid. I think the "you should learn takedowns" hate crowd on guard pulling in competition is silly under the current rules. Want more takedowns? Change the point structure. Until that happens, accept people will pull guard and look to sweep.

2) It's a training modality in some instances that lets people work their guard. If your training SD or MMA you don't WANT to be on your back. This is an overlooked fact. Just because we have an answer doesn't me it's our first option. I'd rather be on top during a ground fight. But if we never practice negative position we'll never have adequate responses from there. Hence, pulling guard lets two partners who are doing stand up primarily move to a ground position to work off their back, and of course the counter. The kind of thing is no different than any other artificial contrivance we put on sparring or live training to specifically work on things.

Now, you have to understand what you're adding grappling to your repertoire for. That's something that people experimenting need to answer right out of the gate. Obviously, 1 and 2 above are two different things with wildly different approach's. Delineating what you want to get out of it is a critical step to maximize growth and prevent frustration.
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sensei8 · KF Sensei

OneKickWonder · Purple Belt

I have no experience of BJJ at all. So I'll put it out there that I'm not a grappler.

I had to Google 'pulling guard'.

It kind of makes sense to me, to some extent. Coming from a stand up mostly striking style, I'm aware that the most dangerous place to be is at optimum striking range. Pulling guard seems to me to be similar in principle to moving inside the opponent's comfortable range in order to take their balance while being too close for them to strike effectively.

Interestingly, I have always preferred to move in rather than trying to stay just out of range, despite many teachers teaching the latter over the former. And in play fighting I will often use both arms and legs to grip an opponent while trying to 'mock grapple' them (mostly with my sons these days). I used to wonder where this habit came from, giving that I've never trained BJJ. But the more I learn of my current style, with close quarters grappling being an increasing aspect at higher grades, I find myself recognising stuff I thought I'd invented myself. Then I remembered that when I was very young, I trained in judo for a while. I can't really remember much about it, but maybe it was just enough, at just the right stage in my life, to stick. At least at core principle level if not specific technique.

I'd still get my butt kicked by a real grappler though lol.

TJ-Jitsu · Blue Belt

Tempest · Green Belt

TJ-Jitsu · Blue Belt

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