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The BB of C
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1264
Location: Orlando, Florida
Styles: Kuk Sool Won, Isshin-ryu, Capoeira, Brazillian Jiu Jutsu, Judo
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 Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I really wasn't joking. I'd sign up in a second so long as they pull shots on the vital points. I think it would serve for two good windows: One of them being how much of a beating can you take? The second one being how well this womens' self defense is being taught. |
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doug_kissaki
Yellow Belt
Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 68
Location: NJ, USA
Styles: Goju, Tang Soo Do, Shotokan, Kissaki Kai
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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You're out of your mind. Two problems there... first of all, in a women's self defense class, they would teach techniques aimed at incapacitating an attacker. Secondly, these are not trained individuals so the idea of "hit hard here, but pull you blows here" won't work
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Doug
www.kissakikai.com |
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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There is something to working without armor. Usually, it gives you a feel for executing more precision movements. For instance, using goggles to simulate eye strikes, which by necessity are precision. However, this is best done with limited contact and still usually with some sort of gear.
The big suits are for an entirely differnet training protocol. These are utilized for powerful gross motot motions that allow women (or anyone else for that matter) to really cut loose and smash something. This is espically helpful in womenas sd classes because many times, women have a hard time cutting loose on a target. This lets them get the feel without having to worry about harming a trainer. It's more helpful in these cases to have some sort of armor for the trainees than to not.
As for taking punishment. That's easy, spar one of your classmates, who should be far more skilled at hand to hand than the participants in a womens sd course. Limit the gear and go to town. It's a much better gauge. |
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The BB of C
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1264
Location: Orlando, Florida
Styles: Kuk Sool Won, Isshin-ryu, Capoeira, Brazillian Jiu Jutsu, Judo
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| doug_kissaki wrote: |
| You're out of your mind. Two problems there... first of all, in a women's self defense class, they would teach techniques aimed at incapacitating an attacker. Secondly, these are not trained individuals so the idea of "hit hard here, but pull you blows here" won't work |
Is setting them up against an opponent who is probably slowed down significantly and can't move nearly as well as a person who is wearing nothing much different? I was taught that if you are not trained with an opponent who is trying to fight back than you are not training self defense effectively. Going full force without any armor is harmful to student and trainer that could put someone in a hospital (and it takes a lot for me to say that). And putting them against someone that can't move they will not develop the defensive reflexes they may need. So you find a balance in between the two. There is a medium of training very close to full-blown combative contact against someone who is fighting back so armored-up it becomes hard for them to move and training too lightly unarmored against a fully flexible opponent who is fighting back. I was taught that way and am still learning that way. I know a million other people who are learning that way. There's one hundred million more, and people used to train like that all the time. It's possible.
I really believe that it is possible to effectively teach self-defense and use hard contact while training to strike vital points and not buy all the unnecissary armor and not kill anyone in training. If you think that I'm wrong than that's fine but I still honestly say I would try that without the armor and I still think that would be a learning experience for everyone. |
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| See my above post about the psycological resons behind this form of training. |
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joesteph
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| tallgeese wrote: |
The big suits are . . . utilized for powerful gross motor motions that allow women (or anyone else for that matter) to really cut loose and smash something. This is espically helpful in womenas sd classes because many times, women have a hard time cutting loose on a target. This lets them get the feel without having to worry about harming a trainer. It's more helpful in these cases to have some sort of armor for the trainees than to not.
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Not only will I agree about the women, but there are many men who want to learn self-defense, yet would find it difficult to do something that would harm their training partner. Where I study, I've found that I myself feel better if I check with my fellow-student opponent that I'm not, say, destroying his wrist in a joint lock. That's why there's a signal system of tapping your own leg, or even tapping your training partner. When I did choke holds, I asked my "opponent" to tap me on the arm (that's choking him) so I would be certain that I knew to stop/ease up.
The people who attend these classes are not into full-contact, which I believe is being suggested in the trappings of seeing how much you, in the role of attacker, can take. It takes enough courage for these women to walk into that dojang, knowing that the reason they're there isn't because they have a "don't mess with me or I'll turn you into road kill" attitude, but that they are afraid of rape, possibly rape and death. Once they realize that they can really let 'er rip, they'll do it and learn what they need to know. And more power to them.
I have no objection to someone who wants to do full-contact, for whatever reason he--or she--may desire, so long as s/he's a legal adult. But that's not what this is about.
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~ Joe
Vee Arnis Jitsu/JuJitsu |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| The BB of C wrote: |
| I really wasn't joking. I'd sign up in a second so long as they pull shots on the vital points. I think it would serve for two good windows: One of them being how much of a beating can you take? The second one being how well this womens' self defense is being taught. |
Well, if thats what you want to do, then great. I just no that I wouldn't take a shot to the groin, full blast, by a female that you are trying to get into the mindset that she is being sexually assaulted. And that is just one of the females. In the end, they all get to take a shot. The jewels just aren't that durable...
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http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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doug_kissaki
Yellow Belt
Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 68
Location: NJ, USA
Styles: Goju, Tang Soo Do, Shotokan, Kissaki Kai
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| ... The jewels just aren't that durable... |
They're not??? Then you should be training harder 
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Doug
www.kissakikai.com |
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:25 am Post subject: |
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Some sort of ancient conditioning program?  |
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KarateEd
Black Belt
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 1020
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Hey everyone, thanks for the comments and tips.
This class is not sponsored through my MA school and I think that is why they have had some trouble finding people willing to put on the padding. As ya'll have mentioned, the class is designed for everyday, untrained women whom have, probably, never hit anyone full force and with the intent to damage. Going off what I was briefly told, the class teaches them to attack quickly, decisively, and hard, and then get away.
It will definitely be an interesting experience. 
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Ed |
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on the post.
