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sd.bombon
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 17
Location: Philippines
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:18 am    Post subject: Question About Being Promoted Reply with quote

Hello!! Finally after a year not being able to train, am now back at our dojo starting from scratch. Stamina easily depleted, but forms are still there specially when following in Kata. I am currently 10 Kyu in kyokushin.

When I came for the promotion, I saw a lot of my previous friends were far off from where we started 10 kyu were now 6th kyu. Which I don't mind, then one of our sensie from another branch kept on encouraging me to take the promotion. Since I have good form. Hmmm for me am not ready and won't be for a long time.

I just wanna get your guys opinion, when should you get your promotion? How will you know when you are ready? Should you take promotion when encouraged by your seniors and sensie? Is there a number of months you should wait before you get your promotion?

Should I focus on skill or belt? Cause I have been reading online it is important to be a black belt not have a black belt. Are belts even important in kyokushin? Please enlighten me where should I focus? Thank you in advance.
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2407
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as your school is known to produce skilled black belt students, then it can be assumed the instructors know when a student is skilled enough for a given rank, and they will only ask you to test when they know you are ready. I have never asked my instructor to test, but whenever he has told me to test, I have done so. I also encourage all students to test if Sensei has recommended it to them, and when I see a student who I know should test, I tell them so.

As for the value of belts, I will say that belts only have value within the dojo they are given, and even then the rank you have is only as valuable as you believe it to be. Do black belts matter in Kyokushin? Sure, as much as they matter in any other style. That said, Kyokushin is usually (but not always) a very competition-focused style, and so in many dojo, as long as you can beat black belts in kumite, that is the main criteria for the rank. I know that Judo was like that when I did it, as well--I knew all the material for brown belt, but my Sensei wouldn't promote me until I was consistently beating brown belts in shiai, which I wasn't doing. As I said, though, that is going to be different from dojo to dojo. In any case, I suggest you worry more about skill than rank--the skill is what you will take with you outside of the dojo, when you have taken the belt off. Test when your Sensei tells you to test, but otherwise don't worry about it. Train, practice, study, research, and keep moving forward.
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Shorin-Ryu | 2010-Present: Nidan | Sensei: Richard Poage, Jeff Allred
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Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1660
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Shorin Ryu, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Mantis, Schola Saint George (Fiorian sword fighting)

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well promotions usually come with a test, so it's not as easy as just accepting the promotion. If one of your Senseis think that you are ready to test, then go for it! I don't think your Sensei is setting you up to fail. Often times a Sensei will know that you are ready before you feel mentally ready. Take the chance. If you fail, then you have still learned something. I don't think that you have anything to lose.

You should focus on skill. That being said, it is important to understand that belts are gateways to more knowledge within curriculum based schools. Your rank will often denote what you learn next and what you need to continue working on.

At the end of the day, a Black Belt is only the beginning. The only thing a BB tells an instructor is that you have learned the basics and that you are ready to move on to the really advanced stuff.

Good luck in your MA journey, and with your test.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14293
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Question About Being Promoted Reply with quote

sd.bombon wrote:
when should you get your promotion?

When your CI (Chief Instructor) says so, and not sooner!!

sd.bombon wrote:
How will you know when you are ready?

I refer you back to your first question above. You might feel ready, but the call isn't your in the first place!! Feeling ready and being ready are two separate things.

sd.bombon wrote:
Should you take promotion when encouraged by your seniors and sensie?

If you're referring to the Testing Cycle, then, NO!! Respectfully refuse the offer for personal reasons. But be careful, not many CI's like being told, directly or indirectly, anything that questions them. But it's a risk that must be taken if one's that serious.

sd.bombon wrote:
Is there a number of months you should wait before you get your promotion?

While there might be a formula to determine this concern, I'd say this...NO!! There's no number of months you should wait before because it's the least of thing to be concerned with; it'll occur when it does, and no time any sooner!!

sd.bombon wrote:
Should I focus on skill or belt?

Knowledge and experience is paramount over the belt. The belt isn't that important!! The belt should never define you!!

sd.bombon wrote:
Cause I have been reading online it is important to be a black belt not have a black belt.

It's not important to be a black belt. What's important is the betterment of the MAist, through and through. This is obtained through time, and in time, knowledge and experience are increased, but once again, only in time.

sd.bombon wrote:
Are belts even important in kyokushin?

No. Belts are part of Kyokushin. Belts are just that tangible thing that you wrap around your waist, however, the importance of the belt might only be valuable in THAT dojo, and nowhere else!!!!

sd.bombon wrote:
Please enlighten me where should I focus?

The furthest away from the belt as possible, the sooner the better!! Knowledge and experience through time spent on the floor!!

Be patient, and do not seek out for any belt and any promotion whatsoever!!



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Bulltahr
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 602
Location: NEW ZEALAND
Styles: Shotokan, Seido Juku

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Question About Being Promoted Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
sd.bombon wrote:
when should you get your promotion?

When your CI (Chief Instructor) says so, and not sooner!!

sd.bombon wrote:
How will you know when you are ready?

I refer you back to your first question above. You might feel ready, but the call isn't your in the first place!! Feeling ready and being ready are two separate things.

sd.bombon wrote:
Should you take promotion when encouraged by your seniors and sensie?

If you're referring to the Testing Cycle, then, NO!! Respectfully refuse the offer for personal reasons. But be careful, not many CI's like being told, directly or indirectly, anything that questions them. But it's a risk that must be taken if one's that serious.

sd.bombon wrote:
Is there a number of months you should wait before you get your promotion?

While there might be a formula to determine this concern, I'd say this...NO!! There's no number of months you should wait before because it's the least of thing to be concerned with; it'll occur when it does, and no time any sooner!!

sd.bombon wrote:
Should I focus on skill or belt?

Knowledge and experience is paramount over the belt. The belt isn't that important!! The belt should never define you!!

sd.bombon wrote:
Cause I have been reading online it is important to be a black belt not have a black belt.

It's not important to be a black belt. What's important is the betterment of the MAist, through and through. This is obtained through time, and in time, knowledge and experience are increased, but once again, only in time.

sd.bombon wrote:
Are belts even important in kyokushin?

No. Belts are part of Kyokushin. Belts are just that tangible thing that you wrap around your waist, however, the importance of the belt might only be valuable in THAT dojo, and nowhere else!!!!

sd.bombon wrote:
Please enlighten me where should I focus?

The furthest away from the belt as possible, the sooner the better!! Knowledge and experience through time spent on the floor!!

Be patient, and do not seek out for any belt and any promotion whatsoever!!


The above is the absolute complete answer for you Bombon, When your Chief Instructor tells you, then you MUST trust his judgement and grade (Test), it is his decision and his alone to make!
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2341
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"A black belt only covers two inches of your (butt). You have to cover the rest."
~ Royce Gracie

That pretty much sums up everything I feel about my own rank. Chase improvement, not belts.

In addition to everything that's been said, your sensei knows when you're ready to move forward/promote. If you don't trust his opinion, why are you training there? Trust your sensei. We all doubt ourselves often; others with genuine knowledge often see what we don't.
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sd.bombon
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 17
Location: Philippines
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quality definitely there, can be seen with all level of kyus and our black belts. I know in myself that in some aspects of the promotion I can nail it and pass. But there are certainly some thing I personally wanna achieve first before moving a rank to 9th. Like stamina, being able to do one session without being winded, flexibility and also maybe win a tournament or two.

Appreciate all the responses, will definitely take this into mind next time the offer is made maybe our branch chief makes the offer.
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1709

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Belts or any other objects may come sooner or later. It is different for everyone and only relevant in whatever dojo one trains. All that is left when one changes back to everyday clothes and outside of that context is what one can or cannot do. What counts is what one has learned and how well.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wastelander wrote:
As long as your school is known to produce skilled black belt students, then it can be assumed the instructors know when a student is skilled enough for a given rank, and they will only ask you to test when they know you are ready. I have never asked my instructor to test, but whenever he has told me to test, I have done so. I also encourage all students to test if Sensei has recommended it to them, and when I see a student who I know should test, I tell them so.

As for the value of belts, I will say that belts only have value within the dojo they are given, and even then the rank you have is only as valuable as you believe it to be. Do black belts matter in Kyokushin? Sure, as much as they matter in any other style. That said, Kyokushin is usually (but not always) a very competition-focused style, and so in many dojo, as long as you can beat black belts in kumite, that is the main criteria for the rank. I know that Judo was like that when I did it, as well--I knew all the material for brown belt, but my Sensei wouldn't promote me until I was consistently beating brown belts in shiai, which I wasn't doing. As I said, though, that is going to be different from dojo to dojo. In any case, I suggest you worry more about skill than rank--the skill is what you will take with you outside of the dojo, when you have taken the belt off. Test when your Sensei tells you to test, but otherwise don't worry about it. Train, practice, study, research, and keep moving forward.


Solid post. Excellent advice.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Question About Being Promoted Reply with quote

sd.bombon wrote:
when should you get your promotion?


When your Sensei promotes you.

sd.bombon wrote:
How will you know when you are ready?


When your Sensei tells you your ready.

sd.bombon wrote:
Should you take promotion when encouraged by your seniors and sensie?


This is partly up to your Sensei and partly up to you. I have turned down promotions when I did not feel ready and there is nothing wrong with this but must be done in a humble manner so as not to make it seem that you are questioning the instructors decision. Kind of a touchy subject and should be approached only if there is a good reason you feel you are not ready.

sd.bombon wrote:
Is there a number of months you should wait before you get your promotion?


Most modern dojo/schools have a time in grade component to their grading. However, NO, there is no set time. Everyone learns at their own pace and everyone has different abilities. To say that everyone should test at a given time is IMHO not practical. Some will be ready sooner than others and others will take more time than average. Minimum/ Maximum grading time is based on an average. That does not cover everyone. Your Sensei is the deciding factor of when and if you test.

sd.bombon wrote:
Should I focus on skill or belt?


Focus on skill. Belts can be bought. They are only as good as the person wearing them.

sd.bombon wrote:
Cause I have been reading online it is important to be a black belt not have a black belt. Are belts even important in kyokushin? Please enlighten me where should I focus? Thank you in advance.


Being a BB is different than having a BB. Again you can buy a belt or can even be given a belt. However it means nothing if you get destroyed by a Hachikyu.

The belt is only as good as the person wearing it. You focus should be on obtaining the knowledge and skill. The belt does not represent you. You could be a black belt and be wearing a white belt. If the belt defines who you are then do you loose the knowledge and skill you already had obtained to earn the black belt? On a different note, if you are given a black belt and get beat by a schools green belt are you truly a black belt?

You define the belt not the other way around. Concentrate on skill and knowledge and the belts will come. If you hold value in the belt, what happens if you change styles and are forced to start over?

Belts mean nothing. As Sensei8 likes to say, "proof is on the floor". It's not around your waist.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
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