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Ronin72
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 20 Jul 2015
Posts: 1
Location: Midwest
Styles: Shotokan, Goju

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:30 pm    Post subject: Questionable instructor ranks Reply with quote

Just a word of caution to those who might be thinking of joining some national and international martial arts organizations..There are a number of instructors advertising memberships to unsuspecting instructors and students....some of these organizations advertise that their head instructor to be 10th degree black belts.

While this is certainly possible ( not likely ) , they are often self promoted , or promoted by their own instructors.

If you think this doesn't happen, I will estimate that at least half of all high ranking instructors 8th degree and above , got their rank this way.

How can you know this? Only through careful investigation!
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14268
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: Questionable instructor ranks Reply with quote

Ronin72 wrote:
Just a word of caution to those who might be thinking of joining some national and international martial arts organizations..There are a number of instructors advertising memberships to unsuspecting instructors and students....some of these organizations advertise that their head instructor to be 10th degree black belts.

While this is certainly possible ( not likely ) , they are often self promoted , or promoted by their own instructors.

If you think this doesn't happen, I will estimate that at least half of all high ranking instructors 8th degree and above , got their rank this way.

How can you know this? Only through careful investigation!

Whew...I'm glad that I'm of the half that WAS TESTED for my Hachidan.



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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2332
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, you mean there's unethical people in the martial arts who'd inflate their own rank and pad their resumes just to make some money? I never saw that one coming.

How did you get to your half of all high ranking black belts are self promoted estimate?

And so what if they are? If they're teaching you something that's valuable to you and aren't overcharging you for it, what difference does it make if they claim white belt or 1 millionth dan? The information isn't different.
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Montana
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 823
Location: Formerly Kalispell, Montana, now Spokane, WA
Styles: Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo & Kobudo

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll stick my head out and say this...in my 40 years in the arts, I'd personally estimate that phony 9-10th dan "masters" is well OVER half of them, especially in the US. I'd bet it's more like the 80%+ range.

But I guess if you start your own style, you can make yourself any rank you want...right? That's why you see 30-something year old 9-10th dans.

Do they have the skills or experienc to back up the rank? Of course not...but they aren't breaking any laws, so why not.

Oh, by the way, I'd like to announce that I started my own system just today..and I'm now a 15th Dan ULTRAMASTER (Chrome belt) of the martial arts!

ALL HAIL THE GREAT, AND POWERFUL MONTANA!!!
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Student since January 1975---4th Dan, retired due to non-martial arts related injuries.
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2202
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that are lot of people these days are ranking themselves to make them seem like the most important person around or even to have the appearance as an 'expert' in the field.

People have said to my sensei that he could just "grade" himself to 4th Dan. But he has rejected the notion so many times now, because he wants to earn it through a grading and not because he says so.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14268
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Montana wrote:
I'll stick my head out and say this...in my 40 years in the arts, I'd personally estimate that phony 9-10th dan "masters" is well OVER half of them, especially in the US. I'd bet it's more like the 80%+ range.

But I guess if you start your own style, you can make yourself any rank you want...right? That's why you see 30-something year old 9-10th dans.

Do they have the skills or experienc to back up the rank? Of course not...but they aren't breaking any laws, so why not.

Oh, by the way, I'd like to announce that I started my own system just today..and I'm now a 15th Dan ULTRAMASTER (Chrome belt) of the martial arts!

ALL HAIL THE GREAT, AND POWERFUL MONTANA!!!

Whew...glad I'm part of the 20% range!!



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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1703

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quoth a wise man I met once in a past life: self-evaluations are always biased, even when done in good faith. Dishonest people will often elevate themselves with lies or exaggerations if there is any adavantage from doing it.
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2332
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I started my own style, I'd wear a black belt. No dan stripes on it, no dan level certificate. I'd "let" my students rank me after I was dead. I figure after I'm dead, it won't make any difference to me, only them.

Then again, Sosai JR of JR Kwon Do (ripoff of Rex Kwon Do) has a nice ring to it. If Oyama's title was Sosai, why should mine be any different?

Now back to reality...

Then again, who ranked these living legends, recently deceased legends, and the founders anyway? I guess if you've got the status of a guy like Fumio Demura, Mas Oyama, Joko Ninomiya or the like, no one's going to criticize your self promotion. Did anyone have the guts to ask Oyama who promoted him to 9th dan when he was alive?
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Titanium
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 08 Aug 2015
Posts: 259
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Styles: Wado-Kai & Shotokan

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's rare to see 9th and 10th Dan masters now; at this level you are very old/elderly.

6th, 7th and 8th Dan senior ranks are very commendable.

There are a lot of fake black belts in the UK too who self promote; this is absurd. In my eyes, this is a disrespectful gesture to genuine senior ranks and the art.
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1703

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone I have ever met with an authentic, verifiable seventh Dan or above was at least sixty years old and had begun to training in their teens.
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