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Tempest
Green Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 424
Location: Dallas
Styles: Judo, HEMA
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 Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Tempest wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Himokiri Karate wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Quote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| You have to be careful when considering such things. It's very easy to find martial arts in virtually every kind of movement. You could look at an old man using a rake in the garden and quickly conclude he's a master of whatever style you're familiar with because he's in a perfect fighting stance for example. |
That is true and a fair point. In my martial arts fiction phase I got obsessed with scythe. In reality people did fight with scythe but there was never a school or a style that catered to scythe techniques. It was more of an improvised effort by eastern European peasants looking to defend their land and freedom. Although the world of anime has glorified scythe wielders to a great degree. |
The scythe would make a rubbish weapon. They are heavy and unbalanced and unless you're attacking the enemy's ankles while he stands still, they'd be very awkward to use offensively. I know this because I've used an old fashioned scythe many times. No doubt better than nothing as a weapon, but there were many peasant farming tools that make vastly better improvised weapons. One of the main weapons of choice in medieval England was the bill. It's basically a massive heavy blade with a hook on one side, mounted to the end of a long stick. It's agricultural use is for managing hedges and for cutting fruit from trees, but it is also naturally very offensive, being a big stick with a heavy blade. It was used in combat both as a staff and as a spear. The hook also proved useful for dragging soldiers from their horses. It was so popular as a weapon that for a while, it was a legal requirement for all boys over the age of 13 to attend their village green or square every Sunday to practice 'bill drill', which I guess could be approximated to the Japanese concept of kata. |
The scythe is rubbish due to its crooked handle but the main advantage was the fact that it caused terror . I am not being comical either, the scythe really messes people up psychologically speaking. That being said the ultimate scythe is a halberd that has a scythe handle. |
I think if anyone ever actually used a scythe in battle, it would have been because it was the only thing handy when they were caught off guard.
It would be better than nothing. But there were very very many better choices.
I'd be interested to read of any historical record of the scythe being used as a weapon of choice, either for its offensive use or its psychological impact. With regard to the psychological factor of causing terror, I can't help but wonder if this is myth in the same way as the vikings with their horned helmets that they didn't actually have. Ie, a great thing for theatrical effect but absolutely no place in historical warfare. |
Since you asked...
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Paulus_Hector_Mair
The scythe... does have it's use, however it would not be my first choice of weapons. |
I must be missing something obvious, but I can't see where it mentions the use of the scythe in battle. |
There is a section in Mair's book about the use of the scythe, and several other "peasant weapons" from German history. There are several techniques for the weapon. And the sickle is described separately.
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Think first, act second, and stop getting the two confused. |
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Himokiri Karate
Member of the Month
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 408
Styles: Boxing, Korean Karate
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Tempest wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Himokiri Karate wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Quote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| You have to be careful when considering such things. It's very easy to find martial arts in virtually every kind of movement. You could look at an old man using a rake in the garden and quickly conclude he's a master of whatever style you're familiar with because he's in a perfect fighting stance for example. |
That is true and a fair point. In my martial arts fiction phase I got obsessed with scythe. In reality people did fight with scythe but there was never a school or a style that catered to scythe techniques. It was more of an improvised effort by eastern European peasants looking to defend their land and freedom. Although the world of anime has glorified scythe wielders to a great degree. |
The scythe would make a rubbish weapon. They are heavy and unbalanced and unless you're attacking the enemy's ankles while he stands still, they'd be very awkward to use offensively. I know this because I've used an old fashioned scythe many times. No doubt better than nothing as a weapon, but there were many peasant farming tools that make vastly better improvised weapons. One of the main weapons of choice in medieval England was the bill. It's basically a massive heavy blade with a hook on one side, mounted to the end of a long stick. It's agricultural use is for managing hedges and for cutting fruit from trees, but it is also naturally very offensive, being a big stick with a heavy blade. It was used in combat both as a staff and as a spear. The hook also proved useful for dragging soldiers from their horses. It was so popular as a weapon that for a while, it was a legal requirement for all boys over the age of 13 to attend their village green or square every Sunday to practice 'bill drill', which I guess could be approximated to the Japanese concept of kata. |
The scythe is rubbish due to its crooked handle but the main advantage was the fact that it caused terror . I am not being comical either, the scythe really messes people up psychologically speaking. That being said the ultimate scythe is a halberd that has a scythe handle. |
I think if anyone ever actually used a scythe in battle, it would have been because it was the only thing handy when they were caught off guard.
It would be better than nothing. But there were very very many better choices.
I'd be interested to read of any historical record of the scythe being used as a weapon of choice, either for its offensive use or its psychological impact. With regard to the psychological factor of causing terror, I can't help but wonder if this is myth in the same way as the vikings with their horned helmets that they didn't actually have. Ie, a great thing for theatrical effect but absolutely no place in historical warfare. |
Since you asked...
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Paulus_Hector_Mair
The scythe... does have it's use, however it would not be my first choice of weapons. |
I must be missing something obvious, but I can't see where it mentions the use of the scythe in battle. |
It seems like I made a mistake. I was incorrect regarding regular scythe causing psycological impact. In the war scythe wiki section, it mentions that it can throw off an unprepared enemy but it was not mentioned for a regular scythe.
You can find it under "specifics"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scythe
Oh and another real life martial arts that is super popular is...Dim mak!
Had to highlight and enlarge it for dramatic effects.
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It begins with the knowledge that the severity of a strikes impact is amplified by a smaller surface area. |
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