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Himokiri Karate
Member of the Month
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 408
Styles: Boxing, Korean Karate
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 Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:14 am Post subject: Real life styles that are more popular in fiction? |
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I was watching two series that come from video games. One is an anime another is cutscene of game.
In both games there is a powerful kung fu style called Koenken. ( sometimes the Ken is pronounced as kon)
Anyway the style is based on tiger and swallow Bird. Now I come to realize that it is a real life style that is almost extinct but live and well in fiction. Curious to know if you know other real life styles that have more prominent in fictions?
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Great topic, Himokiri Karate!!
For the life of me, I can't think if one, sorry. But, I'd not be surprised if there are more than a few. I play games like SOCUM, Metal Gear Solid, Call of Duty, Battlefield, and Halo, which I don't believe have any forgotten MA.
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| You have to be careful when considering such things. It's very easy to find martial arts in virtually every kind of movement. You could look at an old man using a rake in the garden and quickly conclude he's a master of whatever style you're familiar with because he's in a perfect fighting stance for example. |
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Himokiri Karate
Member of the Month
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 408
Styles: Boxing, Korean Karate
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
Great topic, Himokiri Karate!!
For the life of me, I can't think if one, sorry. But, I'd not be surprised if there are more than a few. I play games like SOCUM, Metal Gear Solid, Call of Duty, Battlefield, and Halo, which I don't believe have any forgotten MA.
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Myself I am not much of a video gamer per say but I am a huge fan of storylines and storytellers. So I love video game cutscenes and some have amazing storylines.
Oh and I found out another style that is real life but more popular in fiction. Its called Koppojutsu. Many martial arts mangas have characters who come across this martial arts style. Usually its a sub-style they pick up or counter. Its an ancient Japanese martial arts from the 12 century. Its rare in real life but it did exist within some schools of ninjitsu and occasionally on its own if I recall correctly.
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| You have to be careful when considering such things. It's very easy to find martial arts in virtually every kind of movement. You could look at an old man using a rake in the garden and quickly conclude he's a master of whatever style you're familiar with because he's in a perfect fighting stance for example. |
That is true and a fair point. In my martial arts fiction phase I got obsessed with scythe. In reality people did fight with scythe but there was never a school or a style that catered to scythe techniques. It was more of an improvised effort by eastern European peasants looking to defend their land and freedom. Although the world of anime has glorified scythe wielders to a great degree.
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| You have to be careful when considering such things. It's very easy to find martial arts in virtually every kind of movement. You could look at an old man using a rake in the garden and quickly conclude he's a master of whatever style you're familiar with because he's in a perfect fighting stance for example. |
That is true and a fair point. In my martial arts fiction phase I got obsessed with scythe. In reality people did fight with scythe but there was never a school or a style that catered to scythe techniques. It was more of an improvised effort by eastern European peasants looking to defend their land and freedom. Although the world of anime has glorified scythe wielders to a great degree. |
The scythe would make a rubbish weapon. They are heavy and unbalanced and unless you're attacking the enemy's ankles while he stands still, they'd be very awkward to use offensively. I know this because I've used an old fashioned scythe many times. No doubt better than nothing as a weapon, but there were many peasant farming tools that make vastly better improvised weapons. One of the main weapons of choice in medieval England was the bill. It's basically a massive heavy blade with a hook on one side, mounted to the end of a long stick. It's agricultural use is for managing hedges and for cutting fruit from trees, but it is also naturally very offensive, being a big stick with a heavy blade. It was used in combat both as a staff and as a spear. The hook also proved useful for dragging soldiers from their horses. It was so popular as a weapon that for a while, it was a legal requirement for all boys over the age of 13 to attend their village green or square every Sunday to practice 'bill drill', which I guess could be approximated to the Japanese concept of kata. |
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Himokiri Karate
Member of the Month
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 408
Styles: Boxing, Korean Karate
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Quote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| You have to be careful when considering such things. It's very easy to find martial arts in virtually every kind of movement. You could look at an old man using a rake in the garden and quickly conclude he's a master of whatever style you're familiar with because he's in a perfect fighting stance for example. |
That is true and a fair point. In my martial arts fiction phase I got obsessed with scythe. In reality people did fight with scythe but there was never a school or a style that catered to scythe techniques. It was more of an improvised effort by eastern European peasants looking to defend their land and freedom. Although the world of anime has glorified scythe wielders to a great degree. |
The scythe would make a rubbish weapon. They are heavy and unbalanced and unless you're attacking the enemy's ankles while he stands still, they'd be very awkward to use offensively. I know this because I've used an old fashioned scythe many times. No doubt better than nothing as a weapon, but there were many peasant farming tools that make vastly better improvised weapons. One of the main weapons of choice in medieval England was the bill. It's basically a massive heavy blade with a hook on one side, mounted to the end of a long stick. It's agricultural use is for managing hedges and for cutting fruit from trees, but it is also naturally very offensive, being a big stick with a heavy blade. It was used in combat both as a staff and as a spear. The hook also proved useful for dragging soldiers from their horses. It was so popular as a weapon that for a while, it was a legal requirement for all boys over the age of 13 to attend their village green or square every Sunday to practice 'bill drill', which I guess could be approximated to the Japanese concept of kata. |
The scythe is rubbish due to its crooked handle but the main advantage was the fact that it caused terror . I am not being comical either, the scythe really messes people up psychologically speaking. That being said the ultimate scythe is a halberd that has a scythe handle.
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Himokiri Karate wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Quote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| You have to be careful when considering such things. It's very easy to find martial arts in virtually every kind of movement. You could look at an old man using a rake in the garden and quickly conclude he's a master of whatever style you're familiar with because he's in a perfect fighting stance for example. |
That is true and a fair point. In my martial arts fiction phase I got obsessed with scythe. In reality people did fight with scythe but there was never a school or a style that catered to scythe techniques. It was more of an improvised effort by eastern European peasants looking to defend their land and freedom. Although the world of anime has glorified scythe wielders to a great degree. |
The scythe would make a rubbish weapon. They are heavy and unbalanced and unless you're attacking the enemy's ankles while he stands still, they'd be very awkward to use offensively. I know this because I've used an old fashioned scythe many times. No doubt better than nothing as a weapon, but there were many peasant farming tools that make vastly better improvised weapons. One of the main weapons of choice in medieval England was the bill. It's basically a massive heavy blade with a hook on one side, mounted to the end of a long stick. It's agricultural use is for managing hedges and for cutting fruit from trees, but it is also naturally very offensive, being a big stick with a heavy blade. It was used in combat both as a staff and as a spear. The hook also proved useful for dragging soldiers from their horses. It was so popular as a weapon that for a while, it was a legal requirement for all boys over the age of 13 to attend their village green or square every Sunday to practice 'bill drill', which I guess could be approximated to the Japanese concept of kata. |
The scythe is rubbish due to its crooked handle but the main advantage was the fact that it caused terror . I am not being comical either, the scythe really messes people up psychologically speaking. That being said the ultimate scythe is a halberd that has a scythe handle. |
I think if anyone ever actually used a scythe in battle, it would have been because it was the only thing handy when they were caught off guard.
It would be better than nothing. But there were very very many better choices.
I'd be interested to read of any historical record of the scythe being used as a weapon of choice, either for its offensive use or its psychological impact. With regard to the psychological factor of causing terror, I can't help but wonder if this is myth in the same way as the vikings with their horned helmets that they didn't actually have. Ie, a great thing for theatrical effect but absolutely no place in historical warfare. |
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Tempest
Green Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 424
Location: Dallas
Styles: Judo, HEMA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Himokiri Karate wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Quote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| You have to be careful when considering such things. It's very easy to find martial arts in virtually every kind of movement. You could look at an old man using a rake in the garden and quickly conclude he's a master of whatever style you're familiar with because he's in a perfect fighting stance for example. |
That is true and a fair point. In my martial arts fiction phase I got obsessed with scythe. In reality people did fight with scythe but there was never a school or a style that catered to scythe techniques. It was more of an improvised effort by eastern European peasants looking to defend their land and freedom. Although the world of anime has glorified scythe wielders to a great degree. |
The scythe would make a rubbish weapon. They are heavy and unbalanced and unless you're attacking the enemy's ankles while he stands still, they'd be very awkward to use offensively. I know this because I've used an old fashioned scythe many times. No doubt better than nothing as a weapon, but there were many peasant farming tools that make vastly better improvised weapons. One of the main weapons of choice in medieval England was the bill. It's basically a massive heavy blade with a hook on one side, mounted to the end of a long stick. It's agricultural use is for managing hedges and for cutting fruit from trees, but it is also naturally very offensive, being a big stick with a heavy blade. It was used in combat both as a staff and as a spear. The hook also proved useful for dragging soldiers from their horses. It was so popular as a weapon that for a while, it was a legal requirement for all boys over the age of 13 to attend their village green or square every Sunday to practice 'bill drill', which I guess could be approximated to the Japanese concept of kata. |
The scythe is rubbish due to its crooked handle but the main advantage was the fact that it caused terror . I am not being comical either, the scythe really messes people up psychologically speaking. That being said the ultimate scythe is a halberd that has a scythe handle. |
I think if anyone ever actually used a scythe in battle, it would have been because it was the only thing handy when they were caught off guard.
It would be better than nothing. But there were very very many better choices.
I'd be interested to read of any historical record of the scythe being used as a weapon of choice, either for its offensive use or its psychological impact. With regard to the psychological factor of causing terror, I can't help but wonder if this is myth in the same way as the vikings with their horned helmets that they didn't actually have. Ie, a great thing for theatrical effect but absolutely no place in historical warfare. |
Since you asked...
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Paulus_Hector_Mair
The scythe... does have it's use, however it would not be my first choice of weapons.
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Think first, act second, and stop getting the two confused. |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Tempest wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Himokiri Karate wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| Quote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| You have to be careful when considering such things. It's very easy to find martial arts in virtually every kind of movement. You could look at an old man using a rake in the garden and quickly conclude he's a master of whatever style you're familiar with because he's in a perfect fighting stance for example. |
That is true and a fair point. In my martial arts fiction phase I got obsessed with scythe. In reality people did fight with scythe but there was never a school or a style that catered to scythe techniques. It was more of an improvised effort by eastern European peasants looking to defend their land and freedom. Although the world of anime has glorified scythe wielders to a great degree. |
The scythe would make a rubbish weapon. They are heavy and unbalanced and unless you're attacking the enemy's ankles while he stands still, they'd be very awkward to use offensively. I know this because I've used an old fashioned scythe many times. No doubt better than nothing as a weapon, but there were many peasant farming tools that make vastly better improvised weapons. One of the main weapons of choice in medieval England was the bill. It's basically a massive heavy blade with a hook on one side, mounted to the end of a long stick. It's agricultural use is for managing hedges and for cutting fruit from trees, but it is also naturally very offensive, being a big stick with a heavy blade. It was used in combat both as a staff and as a spear. The hook also proved useful for dragging soldiers from their horses. It was so popular as a weapon that for a while, it was a legal requirement for all boys over the age of 13 to attend their village green or square every Sunday to practice 'bill drill', which I guess could be approximated to the Japanese concept of kata. |
The scythe is rubbish due to its crooked handle but the main advantage was the fact that it caused terror . I am not being comical either, the scythe really messes people up psychologically speaking. That being said the ultimate scythe is a halberd that has a scythe handle. |
I think if anyone ever actually used a scythe in battle, it would have been because it was the only thing handy when they were caught off guard.
It would be better than nothing. But there were very very many better choices.
I'd be interested to read of any historical record of the scythe being used as a weapon of choice, either for its offensive use or its psychological impact. With regard to the psychological factor of causing terror, I can't help but wonder if this is myth in the same way as the vikings with their horned helmets that they didn't actually have. Ie, a great thing for theatrical effect but absolutely no place in historical warfare. |
Since you asked...
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Paulus_Hector_Mair
The scythe... does have it's use, however it would not be my first choice of weapons. |
I must be missing something obvious, but I can't see where it mentions the use of the scythe in battle. |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Here we go.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scythe
The 'war scythe' or 'military scythe' is a purpose built weapon, loosely based on the agricultural scythe it seems.
The agricultural scythe has the blade at a very different angle. The agricultural scythe was primarily used for harvesting grain crops ( and secondarily hay and stray) before mechanisation. It's blade is at a right angle to the pole, so as to be horizontal and close to the ground when held and swung in a sort of sweeping motion.
The 'war scythes' depicted in Wikipedia look to me much closer to the bill hook, which was a popular weapon of choice, but also primarily a farming tool.
As an aside, anyone that's ever had the privilege of having a go on a genuine vintage scythe will know that if it was used in combat, you'd better not miss. They are perfectly balanced when the blade is at the bottom and you swing it in a sort of pendulum motion. But they are so heavy that if you tried to swing one blade up, it's going to take a lot of energy to bring it to bear again if you miss first time. Your enemy would have time to catch his breath, select his weapon, maybe have a cup of tea, then kill you any way he felt like before you'd brought it back round. That's all assuming you don't accidentally lop your own head off with it. |
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on the post.
