Referral for Edinboro (PA) Family Martial Arts??

drr59 · White Belt

I am wondering if there is anyone in northwest PA who has dealt with the Delbert Rounds of the Edinboro Family Martial Arts Center? He is pushing for a long term contract and I am a little reluctant to sign up. I understand he used to have a dojo in Erie as well. He is making promises that he will not put down on paper so I am wondering if anyone else has had any dealings with him. I would really appreciate any assistance.

Also, is it standard practice for dojo's to insist on multi-year contracts?

ninjanurse · KF VIP

Some schools offer 1, 2, or 3 year contracts-I do myself-however, I put everything in writing....NO EXCEPTIONS! If he is making promises that he won't put in writing then I would strongly advise you to go elsewhere. Never sign unless everything is on the table-integrity should be present in everything the school does/teaches.

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nurkb · White Belt

[quote="drr59"]I am wondering if there is anyone in northwest PA who has dealt with the Delbert Rounds of the Edinboro Family Martial Arts Center? He is pushing for a long term contract and I am a little reluctant to sign up. I understand he used to have a dojo in Erie as well. He is making promises that he will not put down on paper so I am wondering if anyone else has had any dealings with him. I would really appreciate any assistance.

Also, is it standard practice for dojo's to insist on multi-year contracts?[/quote]

I took classes from Sensie Rounds for about a year. He pressured me to sign a 4 year contract. I was reluctant as I planned on returning to school and would be short on time and money for Karate. Sensie agreed that if I were to return to school he would allow me out of my contract. He has since refused to cancel the contract. I have discovered the only way I can get out of the contract is to move, become permenetly disabled or pay the entire amount up front. This is not at all what he agreed at the time of signing. I am now being sued by a collection agency for over $3,000. I feel Del Rounds lied directly to me on this matter and I would never recomend anyone sign a contract with his establishment.

mindsedgeblade · Orange Belt

MasterPain · Black Belt

Any alterations in a written contract must be written into the contract. A verbal agreement does not hold water in court against a signed contract. And anyone who has you sign a contract knows this. They can verbally agree to anything, but if they want to sue, they have a contract, you have nothing.
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nurkb · White Belt

[quote="MasterPain"]Any alterations in a written contract must be written into the contract. A verbal agreement does not hold water in court against a signed contract. And anyone who has you sign a contract knows this. They can verbally agree to anything, but if they want to sue, they have a contract, you have nothing.[/quote][quote]

Sucks to be me I guess. The thing about the contract it tells what I will do but not what the dogo will do. I have a contract that gets me a Sensie that shows up late for class 75% of the time and occassionally does not show up at all. He also has the class taught by anouther student with a blue belt or less. I hope this is not what Karate really is. If this is how all schools are run I don't know how you keep the sport going. Who if anyone holds these so called teachers accountable?[/quote]

bushido_man96 · KF Sensei

No, not all schools are like that. There are a few bad apples out there, though.

If the sensei is not making himself available for the bulk of the classes, as you mention, then you might be able to look into a breach of contract. Something to think about. The unfortunante aspect of all of this is that it will cost you time and money with an attorney, unless you are one.

I wish you luck.
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DelRounds · White Belt

Just saw these comments about my dojo and myself tonight. They are inaccurate and potentially libelous. Therefore, I'm responding with the intent to set the record straight for anyone reading these comments. (While I can't address specifics regarding the customer who has written these comments, I will talk briefly about my business practices.)

1.) I ask every student, who wants to take lessons from me, to sign a student agreement. The whole purpose of such agreements is to avoid misunderstandings. (Incidentally, I explain that clearly upfront and one of the conditions of the contracts I use specifically states that only what is written is valid.) Students initial next to each clause in his/her contract as I explain each and every clause. (Takes quite a bit of time to explain things but suffice it to say I'm thorough about this because I want to avoid just such a problem.)

2.) Contracts can't be one-sided or they would be ruled null and void by courts in Pennsylvania. There are plenty of clauses that protect students, when they meet hardship and the agreements are able to be cancelled when these or other conditions are met. EVERYTHING IS FORTHRIGHT, PLAIN LANGUAGE AND WRITTEN DOWN. Students won't sign it if they don't agree to the terms. (In today's litigious society I won't train anyone who won't sign a release and a membership agreement. I also kick students out who violate the dojo's code of conduct. It's my business and I'm responsible for everything that goes on there, including someone who might use martial arts for nefarious reasons.)

3.) The agreements I use exceed all of the requirements of Pennsylvania law and I feel very good about them because this is the first complaint I've experienced. I offer the following as an example of my conformity to PA law, as well as my belief in benefiting customers when it comes to such things: Pennsylvania consumer protection law requires 3-business days to cancel a contract and I offer a 30-day, 100% money back guarantee. In other words, I provide every single student 10 times the required amount of time to cancel--and then get back every single penny paid!

4.) Agreements I offer students are available on a month-to-month basis, 3-months, 6-months, 1-year, 2-year, and so forth. The choice of agreement length is the preference of the future student. I offer and the student accepts or doesn't accept.

5.) I teach over 95% of all classes at my dojo. While I push up to the time slot often (due to my career as a University Professor), I'm often not late to classes and always am hands on in all of my classes, unless I'm ill. Any students teaching are under my direct supervision (i.e., I'm in the dojo with the student teacher).

No matter how someone feels about contracts in the martial arts, unless someone is going to be unfairly critical, they are helpful in delineating responsibilities for _both_ parties. Ultimately contracts protect both parties. Contracts are all around us and we agree to them everyday. Contracts save a lot of heartache for merchants and customers alike. Contracts denote professionalism and are important for not only this reason but to spell out, clearly, the responsibilities of each party. Seldom does someone have a gun held to his/her head while signing one and if they did the contract would be null and void pretty quickly. To join this discussion board I had to agree to a contract. Everyone who posts here did as well. IP addresses are even recorded so that a person can be held responsible for what they write here, including violating rules of conduct developed by Karate Forums and, I suppose, libel and defamation laws.

sensei8 · KF Sensei

As always, I'm on the side of the fence that's dead-set against contracts because they're so binding, one will have to pay it until the end, providing one will opt out correctly. If not, then the contract auto renews. If ones finances can't pay for said contract, then one would have to pay it, no matter what.

I would just like to caution you before you sign any contract. Try to get a copy of the contract and have an attorney give you the pros and cons of it before it becomes a binding nightmare that you can't walk away from.

Yes, you can just walk away from any said contract, but that causes another problem; ruining ones credit.

Good luck!!

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Nevinyrral · Blue Belt

WOw, I never heard before about signing cotrract when you enter a martial arts school. It kind of sucks. I'v only know schools where you just pay for a month, and you come to practices if you want.
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