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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14323
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:21 am    Post subject: Regulation VS De-Regulation?! Reply with quote

Who's to say said school of the MA is or isn't a McDojo and/or the like?

For the sake of this discussion, a McDojo is a school of the MA that's CI isn't an legitimate Black Belt; fake!

Imho, there can never be one Governing body of the MA because more often than not, the most simplistic of concerns can't be agreed between them, no matter what the topic might be. In that, to properly define as to what's legitimate or not just can't be reached by the midnight hour because of differing opinions.

And this is in the world of the MA. In the political arena, well, that's certainly a whole new world. Government officials can't seem to agree on anything, and to be honestly, neither can any MA Governing Body!

To regulate the MA or not in the hopes of protecting the unaware consumer/student of the MA is washed down the sink with the dirty water.

For Government involvement to exist, it will require Government interaction . One of the first things that all would need to agree on is how they can establish who's fake and who's not! However, Governments say the "Martial Art knowledge lies within the practitioner/individual".

All one has to do in the USA to create a "style" of the MA is a letterhead and pay all required fees, and now, you're style is "official" according to the all levels of the Government. Furthermore, all one has to do is "establish a school by having only one student".

For me, I'll never see the day when there will be one Governing Body for all MA. Sure, no one wants to see the Government involved, for their own reasons, in any aspect of the MA.

Those CI's who are fake and the like will continue to harm innocent students one way or another. To bring integrity back into the MA, it might be quite possible for us to rely on Government control, in the form of passing laws and regulations that will rid the MA of such fakes.

Nonetheless, those said fakes will continue to infest the MA, and in that, there'll be nothing that we can do within the MA that will provide that much needed peace of MA integrity, one that we're missing quite desperately.

There will be no regulations, for now, if at all. Governments as well as MA Governing Body's won't ever see eye to eye, not within themselves or within one another. We'll continue to govern ourselves, and the Government will continue to let us be to ourselves.

There are laws on the books in the USA that make it a crime to fraud another, but in this subject, the Government would rather be like the monkey who's happy to...hear no evil, speak no evil, and see no evil.

Your thoughts, thank you!!



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hammer
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 361

Styles: Kyokushin, TKD

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wondering...are there rules that regulate standards for instructors of other physical fitness activities? For example, is there official certification of Yoga or Pilates instructors?

Also, those who have BBs with some kind of certification, how can everyone else know what that certification means? Also, does having no official certification mean that one isn't an excellent MAist and/or instructor?

As far as government control, maybe some kind of requirements for disclosure would be in order. Don't regulate what is required but require instructors and those who own schools to disclose their credentials.

Just a few thoughts...
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27701
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll tell you this, getting the government involved in MA regulation would be a nightmare. Government regulation isn't the answer to everything, and you wouldn't have MA experts involved in government regulation, you'd have (here it comes) more politicians involved. Which still wouldn't fix the problem. Then you get lobbyists involved, and then that means favors likely start happening, and it just gets uglier from there.

I think for the time being, the status quo of how MA schools are run is fine. Sure, there will be the ugly ones that show up from time to time. But, for the most part, people will eventually see the light, and move on.
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2202
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammer wrote:
Just wondering...are there rules that regulate standards for instructors of other physical fitness activities? For example, is there official certification of Yoga or Pilates instructors?


Depending on the activities there would be standards. I am an EP (Exercise Physiologist) and we are governed by ESSA (Exercise Sport Science Australia). They set the benchmark that we have to meet in relation to caring for patients/clients everyday and their treatment.

To be even be registered we have to meet certain requirements to be registered with them.

Is that what your meaning Hammer?
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1714

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I loathe the concept of government regulation for the martial arts. The martial arts are much too diverse to be regulated by a single governing body.

Government regulation usually means that everyone will have to teach and practise following standards and opinions which they do not necessarily share. Many European countries have government federations for martial arts requiring any one who teaches to be a recognized member ranked by this body. This means that ranks earned elsewhere and actual competence are not recognized unless the appropriate exams are passed to the standards established by the federation. This means that if your system is not standard or recognized, you cannot officially teach it no matter how competent you may be as a teacher and how skilled you may be. Of course this only affects those who want to open a school. There are many independent teachers, but it is very hard to do without the federation membership and support.

I could not ever accept anyone telling me how or what I should teach. Especially people who do not know or understand what I do. I will teach what I have been taught the same way I was taught. Politics be damned. Government regulation only magnifies all the political bickering that already plagues the martial arts. Take the worst kind of political problems in any martial arts association and imagine that on a national scale for all martial arts...

A nightmare indeed!
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14323
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great posts,all!!

How else can we end fakery and all? I'm not for Government interaction,nonetheless, only laws and regulations might be the way! After all, we're no longer in 1600 Japan and the like!

Just call them to the carpet...proof is on the floor, but with Government, proof will be required beyond a catch-phrase! Having to "prove" themselves to Government regulations hopefully will begin the weeding out!



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mal103
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 559


PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am in favour of both sides....

In brief I want something done about the local mcdojo's as they turn people away from MA as being rubbish, expensive and not effective. I am also against someone telling me what I can or can't do.

In detail, there are 3 clubs near me, one is a money making machine that charges a lot to be taught rubbish by a "Master", one has watered it down too much and it's ridiculous, another isn't too bad but breaks all the rules like grading early or letting friends/family through - also run by a self graded 5th Dan!!!
All three of these could do with being brought up to a certain standard as there must be hundreds of people who have gone through their doors who have been sold bad MA and will probably turn to something else, some may seek out a better club but a lot will be anti.

I run my own club and nobody has ensured that I have insurance, I have student insurance, a police check (CRB/DBS), 1st Aid training or even that I have been training for several years and have been graded to 2nd Dan.
Some students have asked but I normally show new students my profile and certs, some have said they checked out other clubs and liked mine better, some just assume that you have a BB that you are okay.
I would have no problem with having to meet a basic criteria to open a club, this would then be a mark of approval that students/parents could look out for. Another scheme that I would be happy to sign up to is to be interviewed by a Senior grade in my Art (or similar), they would be able to ensure my MA was good and I had a fairly healthy syllabus and standard and not some idiot who has done a bit of training and bought their own BB/grade.

All of this is to bring up the standard and not start to charge me loads of money and enforcing rules on what/how I teach. Purely to stop people from churning out rubbish or putting students at risk.

There is a clubmark scheme in the UK and you have to apply for acreditation, the first question is "who are you national governing body as recognised by Sport England?" of course we don't have one, we have loads all bickering about who is more important.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read that some taekwondo schools offer franchise oportunities to their blue belts... Earn a blue belt (which is typically about a year or a year-plus training) and then split off to open your own school. How's that for nonsense?
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