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Blue
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 131


PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In my opinion


Respected.

So who do you think Jesus was ?

But as an aside to a comment you made on another post, you are disrespecting Christ, by not believing on Him or God.
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omnifinite
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 09 Apr 2002
Posts: 524
Location: Northern VA
Styles: Hapkido | Kempo | Jujitsu

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2003 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I'll regret getting involved... but...

If there were a "God" that made itself a "son" that was all light and compassion and love, he wouldn't care in the slightest if someone somewhere didn't revere him. Perfect beings aren't needy and insecure.

And if he wasn't divine, well, he's been dead for two millennia... he has other problems.

I think Jesus could have been any number of things... a Boddhisatva, a person with with ideas a few centuries ahead of his time who was in the right place at the right time, a myth... who knows. I bet we'll never make our way through 2000 years of personal and political agendas to find the facts. But when someone elevates a person to "Son of God" status, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, not the other way around.

(and I have no idea how this thread has so far survived the almighty lock )
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TKDMASTER
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 77

Styles: Tkd,jujitsu,kung fu,judo,little akidio

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally disagree with you omnifinite. Im not trying to start a argument or anything. But Jesus was and is the Son of God. He proved that by living a sinless life and then He rose from the grave which no other prophets could ever do. He had to die to save us from our sin which adam had caused by eating the fruit. Well im done.
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Kensai
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 1415
Location: Britain

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2003 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He IS the son of God to YOU, TKDMASTER.

But he means nothing to me.

Blue, if I am disrespecting him for not believing in him, then so be it.

STRIKE ME DOWN NOW GOD!

Nothing.........

I will join all the other Athysists, Humanists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddists and Taoist in hell.

I dont mean to make this sound like a joke, but I am only getting to get really mad, when people tell me that I am disrepecting something that I dont even believe in. And the only way to talk about God and not disrespect him, is to believe in him. So basically anything I say will be disrespectful.

Well if so, he can take it up with me.
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TKDMASTER
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 77

Styles: Tkd,jujitsu,kung fu,judo,little akidio

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2003 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kensai, you are very igonarant. You evidently dont believe in anything. I defiantly dont believe in akidio,but i dont disrespect it. By the way ,when you die He will take it up with you. I dont mean to force this upon anybody and i never tried to force upon anybody. If im not mistaken we were asked what we believe as far as religion and martial arts.I stated my opinion without getting angry.I dont mind discussing something in a machure manner,but you seem to be getting a little angry.(which is scaring nobody) Martial artist should be able to discuss stuff without getting mad.I dont mind if they get zealous,just dont get angry. Well,im bowing out of this conversation,cause yall do seem to be getting mad. That was not my intent,but i will not apoligize for the things in which i said. I will be happy to discuss it in a machure manner some time. I would like to hear why you believe what you do,and i will be happy to tell you why i believe what i do. adios
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Kyle-san
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 09 Sep 2002
Posts: 735
Location: Brandon, Manitoba

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See, the thing is TKDMASTER this isn't a very interesting debate since you've taken the overzealous Christian angle and are telling us what is and isn't right. You're saying Jesus IS the Son of God, not that you believe he is or have faith that he is, but outright ignoring any non-Christian idea being put in front of you and saying it's wrong, the Christian view is right.

Noone is getting mad, but you're certainly ignoring opinions left and right. Now, in my ever-so-humble opinion I think omnifite's response is a perfect balance to the points being brought up. Noone is bashing you for your faith, but on the other hand we [at very least, I] have no interest in being told that we're outright wrong because the bible, and you, say so. The only way someone is going to get mad in this discussion is if people persist in calling down another's beliefs.

You have your opinion, Kensai has his, omnifite has his, I have mine. Maybe all are right, maybe none are right, but there's no way to prove it.
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ZeRo
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 03 Apr 2002
Posts: 2571


PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i personally dont beleive in god but i respect people who have been brave enough to stay with there faith.
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omnifinite
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 09 Apr 2002
Posts: 524
Location: Northern VA
Styles: Hapkido | Kempo | Jujitsu

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2003 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems when two people have a different set of unquestionable assumptions from the beginning there's really nothing they can say to each other. They may as well be speaking different languages.

"God says..." "But I don't believe in God..." "But God says..." "But I don't believe in God..." can go on forever.

I'm completely comfortable with the way I feel about the usual Christian claims, but as long as we have different assumption-sets my conclusions won't mean anything to anyone else. And I think if we want to call ourselves rational intelligent creatures we're obligated to pick up a book or two and earn those assumptions ourselves instead of just having them handed to us . Trying to plop them into someone else's head is just an exercise in futility anyway.

Out of all the Christians I've talked to at length with about this sort of thing, I've only talked to one who really truly knew why they believed what they believed and could back up everything with research. They had a solid background in history and philosophy and were probably on their way to being involved with the Vatican in some capacity. This is the sort of person I'd much rather talk to. In fact they tend to be just as disgusted with the sheep out there trumpeting the unexamined word of God at the top of their lungs as we non-Christians are.

Too bad epistemology wasn't part of the high school curriculum. Drawing valid conclusions from the day to day information put before us seems like such an easy thing, but I guess it's something a person really has to learn. It's an indispensable skill. I'm still working on it.

"I respect your viewpoint but it's wrong and you're going to suffer for eternity for it," is the kind of comment that makes people mad . It hasn't been said yet, but we're getting close. Throw the R-word around like that and it really doesn't mean anything. Not to me anyway.

Bah, ranting, time for bed now.
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