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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15768
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wastelander wrote:
Having started training in karate under a hachidan who only wears a plain black belt unless it is a formal event, I completely understand the feeling that it is for showing off. My Sensei actually wanted to keep wearing the plain black belt--and he switches back to it if we record videos to be posted publicly--but he respects his Sensei enough to do as he asked and wear the Renshi belt the rest of the time. The fact that he was told to do this while he was in Okinawa, at the honbu dojo, makes it even more odd-feeling.

To the bold type above...

How so, Noah??



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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2627
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Wastelander wrote:
Having started training in karate under a hachidan who only wears a plain black belt unless it is a formal event, I completely understand the feeling that it is for showing off. My Sensei actually wanted to keep wearing the plain black belt--and he switches back to it if we record videos to be posted publicly--but he respects his Sensei enough to do as he asked and wear the Renshi belt the rest of the time. The fact that he was told to do this while he was in Okinawa, at the honbu dojo, makes it even more odd-feeling.

To the bold type above...

How so, Noah??




Well, from what my Sensei and I understand, the Renshi belt was invented by the Goju-Kai on mainland Japan, and was never an Okinawan trend. At some point in the Shorinkan's history, though, someone brought that belt from mainland Japan back to the West. As others have mentioned in this thread, it isn't worn on Okinawa (at least, not in the Shorinkan), but it is worn all over the rest of the world. It's a bit strange to have one bought for and given to you on Okinawa, where it would not be worn.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15768
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, this might be why our Soke, who was born and raised and trained in Okinawa, said...

"Yes, I was born in Okinawa, but I not live there now. Shindokan not belong to Okinawa; it belong to me!!"

What's a student body suppose to do? Accept or quit!! Well, most of you here already know what I did.



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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1876

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that the belt is mostly worn/used outside of Okinawa was presented to a student in Okinawa by a native sensei is most likely due to back influence from mainland Japan and abroad.

Even the most conservative sensei on Okinawa have some influence from outside Okinawa as far as certain administration and grading are concerned. This has been going on since karate was introduced to Japan but has become more and more obvious in the last decade or so.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15768
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
The fact that the belt is mostly worn/used outside of Okinawa was presented to a student in Okinawa by a native sensei is most likely due to back influence from mainland Japan and abroad.

Even the most conservative sensei on Okinawa have some influence from outside Okinawa as far as certain administration and grading are concerned. This has been going on since karate was introduced to Japan but has become more and more obvious in the last decade or so.

Solid post!!



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IcemanSK
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 1084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Styles: Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry if I'm resurrecting an old thread. But I wanted to add what my TKD org does.

We are Kukkiwon affiliated, but we differ from Kukkiwon regulations with our master & grandmaster belts. Kukkiwon regs say "just a plain BB (no rank stripes) but 2 lines of script on each end are fine, no matter what one's BB rank 1st-9th Dan. Kukki-TKD only has a posthumous 10th Dan.

For masters 4th-7th Dan in our org. we have a dotted yellow line through the center of the belt (Picture a divided line on a two-lane road). 8th & 9th Dans, the line is solid. On one end of the belt, the appropriate rank stripes for that person are in yellow. The person's first initial & last name are in English on that same end, while our style, Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan, is on the other in Korean. These master & GM belts come in handy at large events that we have. I might not recognize someone from behind across a hotel ballroom, but I know their approximate rank easily.

In my own dojang, I'm much less formal. I wear a plain BB (no rank stripes) with my name in Korean on one end & my style in Korean on the other end. Both my "dress belt" & my every day belt are from Eosin Panther.
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2300
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wastelander wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Wastelander wrote:
Having started training in karate under a hachidan who only wears a plain black belt unless it is a formal event, I completely understand the feeling that it is for showing off. My Sensei actually wanted to keep wearing the plain black belt--and he switches back to it if we record videos to be posted publicly--but he respects his Sensei enough to do as he asked and wear the Renshi belt the rest of the time. The fact that he was told to do this while he was in Okinawa, at the honbu dojo, makes it even more odd-feeling.

To the bold type above...

How so, Noah??




Well, from what my Sensei and I understand, the Renshi belt was invented by the Goju-Kai on mainland Japan, and was never an Okinawan trend. At some point in the Shorinkan's history, though, someone brought that belt from mainland Japan back to the West. As others have mentioned in this thread, it isn't worn on Okinawa (at least, not in the Shorinkan), but it is worn all over the rest of the world. It's a bit strange to have one bought for and given to you on Okinawa, where it would not be worn.


I know one of my friends who i train with, travelled to Okinawa to a Goju-Ryu Dojo and the sensei there wore a Red Belt.

I am not too sure about the origins of where the wearing of the Renshi Belt came from. But does sound like something Yamaguchi-Sensei may have done
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1876

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience training in Okinawa is that there are only two Dan-level belts of a colour other than black. 9th and 10th dan wear a red belt, 7th and 8th have red/white. All other dan levels wear plain black belts without any fantasies such as shiny satin and the like. Only the name of the person, ryuha and organization in golden embroidery.

It is possible that the so-called renshi belt was offered because the Okinawan instructor knew that it was accepted abroad and wanted to present it as a sign of appreciation and approval of a foreign student representing his organization.
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IcemanSK
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 1084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Styles: Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgive a question from a TKD guy, but when did renshi belts become the norm for 5th Dan+ folks? I remember seeing them in catalogues in the arly 80's (Bear Brand catalogue for sure), but I never remember seeing them on higher ranked folks ( like Fumio Demura Shihan), just a well worn black belt.

Can you help me understand this? Thanks.
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The Pred
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 385

Styles: Goju Ryu

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IcemanSK wrote:
Forgive a question from a TKD guy, but when did renshi belts become the norm for 5th Dan+ folks? I remember seeing them in catalogues in the arly 80's (Bear Brand catalogue for sure), but I never remember seeing them on higher ranked folks ( like Fumio Demura Shihan), just a well worn black belt.

Can you help me understand this? Thanks.


Not clue, perhaps as away for another ceremonial belt, like they use in Judo for 6-8th degree black belt.
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