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IcemanSK
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 1084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Styles: Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Well...it's Red because...that's what they selected!

ok...I'll shut up now!




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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15712
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Well...it's Red because...that's what they selected!

ok...I'll shut up now!



The sleep emoticon is directed towards myself, and not the topic, nor any KF member...I was picking on myself for being, well, dorky me! Sorry!!

Why Red?

I suppose the Red choice because, if I remember, the color Red is held in high regards with the Korean culture. I notice that the Red belt is just before black belt, and I've not seen any Korean styles that have a Brown belt. Japanese/Okinawa use the Brown belt right before black belt: Sankyu to Ikkyu. Another way that the Korean styles differ from the Japanese/Okinawa styles.



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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1876

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to several reliable sources on Korean martial arts, red is used because it is an almost universal colour used for symbolizing a strong warning of danger or caution. The reasoning is that a person at this level is skilled enough to be potentially dangerous and is in the process of learning control to avoid harming others and him/her self.

It is usually the Korean equivalent of brown belt. Japanese styles where red is used as a lower level belt seem to be very rare. No style comes to mind as far as what is found in Japan. Another thing to muddy the water further is the fact that red is worn for tournaments along with blue.
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
According to several reliable sources on Korean martial arts, red is used because it is an almost universal colour used for symbolizing a strong warning of danger or caution. The reasoning is that a person at this level is skilled enough to be potentially dangerous and is in the process of learning control to avoid harming others and him/her self.

It is usually the Korean equivalent of brown belt. Japanese styles where red is used as a lower level belt seem to be very rare. No style comes to mind as far as what is found in Japan. Another thing to muddy the water further is the fact that red is worn for tournaments along with blue.


I like the comments in places like YouTube about competitors wearing red and blue belts. Comments like "that guy is really good, why is he only a blue belt?" and "she's not that good, she's only a red belt."
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2292
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
Spartacus Maximus wrote:
According to several reliable sources on Korean martial arts, red is used because it is an almost universal colour used for symbolizing a strong warning of danger or caution. The reasoning is that a person at this level is skilled enough to be potentially dangerous and is in the process of learning control to avoid harming others and him/her self.

It is usually the Korean equivalent of brown belt. Japanese styles where red is used as a lower level belt seem to be very rare. No style comes to mind as far as what is found in Japan. Another thing to muddy the water further is the fact that red is worn for tournaments along with blue.


I like the comments in places like YouTube about competitors wearing red and blue belts. Comments like "that guy is really good, why is he only a blue belt?" and "she's not that good, she's only a red belt."


It is funny seeing those comments on tournaments where competitors wear a red or blue belt.

I'm pretty sure it is usually on because they don't compete in WKF Sanctioned Tournaments (Therefore allowing National Federations to have their own tournaments).

I spoke to a man and woman the other day who tried arguing that you could only be a Red or Blue Belt in your style to compete and not be any other rank. But when I laid the facts down that all national competitors are of Black Belt Ranking, and extremely rarely a Kyu Grade.
Considering majority of the competitors out of my dojo are Black Belts it says something
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Renshi Belts Reply with quote

Wastelander wrote:
I recently posted about my Sensei being promoted to Godan, and now that he has gotten back from Okinawa, I've been able to hear all kinds of great stories about his trip. Something interesting came up, though, that I was curious to get feedback on from others here on KF--that is the subject of "Renshi belts." For those who don't know, these are belts that are split down the middle with red on one side, and white on the other, like this one:

http://www.kataaro.com/Products/Renshi-Belt__4939.aspx

Different styles and organizations give the title of Renshi at different ranks, if they use it at all, and it isn't always connected to dan ranks. In our organization, though, the Renshi title is given to Godan and Rokudan instructors. That means my Sensei is now a Renshi. Most Renshi in our organization do not wear the above "Renshi belts," but some do.
Interestingly, my Sensei's Sensei told him (and a Rokudan from our dojo) to wear Renshi belts instead of their regular black belts. It's a bit of a strange adjustment, but they agreed to do it. We know of quite a few Nanadan and Hachidan who don't wear their kohaku-obi (the "candy cane" belts used along with Kyoshi titles) for anything but formal events, so after the belts break in, that might be the route they take.

My question is; does your style/organization/dojo use different colored belts after black belt? When are they used? Do they denote ranks, titles, or both?


There is no such belt on Okinawa. Most traditional Okinawan schools wear the black belt. If they have received their Renshi teaching license they put 1 gold tag on their belt. Kyoshi 2 gold tags and Hanshi 3 gold tags.
The Kyoshi obi or what you refer to the candy strip belt and Hanshi obi is used but if the organization chooses to utilize this there is no special belt for Renshi. This is a American/Modern belt that holds no place on Okinawa.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15712
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Renshi Belts Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
Wastelander wrote:
I recently posted about my Sensei being promoted to Godan, and now that he has gotten back from Okinawa, I've been able to hear all kinds of great stories about his trip. Something interesting came up, though, that I was curious to get feedback on from others here on KF--that is the subject of "Renshi belts." For those who don't know, these are belts that are split down the middle with red on one side, and white on the other, like this one:

http://www.kataaro.com/Products/Renshi-Belt__4939.aspx

Different styles and organizations give the title of Renshi at different ranks, if they use it at all, and it isn't always connected to dan ranks. In our organization, though, the Renshi title is given to Godan and Rokudan instructors. That means my Sensei is now a Renshi. Most Renshi in our organization do not wear the above "Renshi belts," but some do.
Interestingly, my Sensei's Sensei told him (and a Rokudan from our dojo) to wear Renshi belts instead of their regular black belts. It's a bit of a strange adjustment, but they agreed to do it. We know of quite a few Nanadan and Hachidan who don't wear their kohaku-obi (the "candy cane" belts used along with Kyoshi titles) for anything but formal events, so after the belts break in, that might be the route they take.

My question is; does your style/organization/dojo use different colored belts after black belt? When are they used? Do they denote ranks, titles, or both?


There is no such belt on Okinawa. Most traditional Okinawan schools wear the black belt. If they have received their Renshi teaching license they put 1 gold tag on their belt. Kyoshi 2 gold tags and Hanshi 3 gold tags.
The Kyoshi obi or what you refer to the candy strip belt and Hanshi obi is used but if the organization chooses to utilize this there is no special belt for Renshi. This is a American/Modern belt that holds no place on Okinawa.

Solid post, MatsuShinshii!!

Reason why we've abolished all rank identifiers, and in that, all Dan ranks are without rank identifiers. We only have, as you've noted, Shogo identifiers. Of course, the layperson, whenever they see me on the floor, no matter where the floor is, they assume I'm a Sandan, and not Hanshi.

Yeah, I get these same assumptions from open tournaments as well, and the kicker for me to chuckle at is their incorrect assumptions wonder, outwardly, how can a Sandan be the Arbitrator, which is two funny chuckles because a Sandan can be an Arbitrator too. Anyone can be the Arbitrator of the tournament; that decision lies with the tournament director and the like.



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