|
|
| Author |
Message |
vantheman
Blue Belt
Joined: 18 Apr 2012
Posts: 252
|
 Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:24 pm Post subject: Rolling: Shoulder Roll or Judo Roll? |
 |
|
Through my martial arts experience, I have done many different kinds of rolls, but there seem to be two major ways to perform a front roll. (Both can be seen in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWRfMN0NG0c )
The judo roll (roll 1 in the video): A modified somersault, the hands remain in the center and stay on the ground throughout the roll.
The Shoulder roll (roll 2): Also know as a Parkour roll, this goes from one shoulder to the opposite hip.
Which one does your art use more? Which one do you prefer? My school tends to do the shoulder roll style more, and we sometimes do a dive variant of it.
(There is a third, Ninja-esque, roll at the end, but I haven't seen that as much as the other two)
_________________
Van |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lupin1
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 1637
Location: Naples, FL
Styles: Isshinryu
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Why is the first roll called a judo roll? I would get yelled at so bad if I put my hands down like that in Judo. I would never put my hands down like that... Break your wrists if you land wrong... I do keep getting yelled at, too, for doing something closer to the third roll shown where I land by my shoulder first instead of rolling up my arm. The one they want us to do is pretty close to the 2nd roll, but with different hand positions. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JusticeZero
Black Belt
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: AK
Styles: Capoeira Angola
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Neither; au/au chibata works fine for that sort've energy recovery, and we usually train all our falling on swept concrete or cobble.
Also not a fan of the way he put his hands down for roll #1. Wrists don't hold force in the ways that the calves do, and he's springing off of the fingers that way.
_________________
"Anything worth doing is worth doing badly." - Baleia |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2733
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I did judo for 4 years, and both styles of karate I have trained in include breakfalls in their curriculum, and I have NEVER been taught to put my hands down as shown in Roll 1.
_________________
Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ninjanurse
KF VIP
Joined: 13 Feb 2003
Posts: 6154
Location: Upstate NY
Styles: TKD;Shotokan;JuJitsu;Tai Ji
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
Shoulder rolls unless practicing straight overs.
_________________
"A Black Belt is only the beginning."
Heidi-A student of the arts
Tae Kwon Do,Shotokan,Ju Jitsu,Modern Arnis
http://the100info.tumblr.com/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tempest
Green Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 424
Location: Dallas
Styles: Judo, HEMA
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Rolling: Shoulder Roll or Judo Roll? |
|
|
| vantheman wrote: |
Through my martial arts experience, I have done many different kinds of rolls, but there seem to be two major ways to perform a front roll. (Both can be seen in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWRfMN0NG0c )
The judo roll (roll 1 in the video): A modified somersault, the hands remain in the center and stay on the ground throughout the roll.
The Shoulder roll (roll 2): Also know as a Parkour roll, this goes from one shoulder to the opposite hip.
Which one does your art use more? Which one do you prefer? My school tends to do the shoulder roll style more, and we sometimes do a dive variant of it.
(There is a third, Ninja-esque, roll at the end, but I haven't seen that as much as the other two) |
Ok, first of all, that guy is having too much fun wearing a black costume outside on a bright sunshiny day.
But seriously, roll number 1 is a summersault(sp?), not a roll you see in Judo except as a way to teach kids and beginners.
Roll number 2 is close to a proper Zempo Kaiten Ukemi, but you might want to make sure you are better at it than this guy. One of the main technical points is to make sure that if you start with the right arm and right leg forward when you finish standing the left arm and left leg are forward to allow for continuous(sp?) rolling without the need to take a step in between. This is critical if you were to say, be a NINJA and jump off the back of something moving and need to kill more momentum than a single roll would allow without harming yourself.
Roll number 3 is a no hands version of roll 2. When you get decent at forward rolls, the hands are not really necessary and if you are relying on them then you are in trouble shoud you ever be thrown with something that occupys your hands.
_________________
Think first, act second, and stop getting the two confused. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kusotare
Purple Belt
Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 574
Styles: Traditional Japanese Karate, Koryu Bujutsu (Jujutsu, Iaido and Kenjutsu)
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
We practice both Touritsu (handstand) and Zempo Kaiten (shoulder to hip) Ukemi.
Whilst I wouldn't say it was wrong to learn them by using your hands (or at least your hands make contact with the floor) - the better you get at them the least you should have to use your hands and arms.
In our school we also have the added dynamic of performing Ukemi whilst wearing weapons (Kodachi and Odachi) - now that’s not easy!
As for the doing them in the stealthiest way possible??? I'm not sure that is a major objective behind learning them in the first place. Chances are if you have to use ukemi, your opponent already knows you are there!!
Also, by using the bottom of your foot to absorb the drop (thus keeping your hips off the floor) this minimises spinal contact with the floor and also - helps if you are wearing weapons.
K.
_________________
Usque ad mortem bibendum! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16417
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
Shoulder to hip roll...I won't do any other.
Btw, I like the fact that, in the video link provided, he was doing rolls downhill. 
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dobbersky
Black Belt
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 1323
Location: Manchester. United Kingdom
Styles: Black Tiger Ashihara Karate Jutsu, Japanese Kickboxing, Cheng Man Ch'ing TaiChi
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Can't view the videos but the rolls we practice are similar to that used in Aikido, but have used the forward, back & side breakfalls used in Judo & Jujitsu
_________________
"Challenge is a Dragon with a Gift in its mouth....Tame the Dragon and the Gift is Yours....." Noela Evans (author) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
on the post.
