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hammer
Green Belt
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 361

Styles: Kyokushin, TKD

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my limited kyokushin experience I've used the upper instep/lower shin for low kicks and the ball for mid kicks. The instep is OK for high kicks where the target is the neck and one doesn't strike as hard. In TKD I learned the kicks with the instep and ball. Knew someone who tried board breaking with the instep but from what I remember that didn't go too well...
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27728
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammer wrote:
Knew someone who tried board breaking with the instep but from what I remember that didn't go too well...


This is doable. I've done up to two boards myself, but I make sure to do it as a front leg kick, and I really snap it out there and back.

It does sting a little, and it leaves some pretty cool red marks around the bones of the foot for a little while.
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Harkon72
Black Belt
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Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 1875
Location: Wales
Styles: Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Ninpo.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hammer is right, the video of the Thai Boxer smashing the banana tree is misleading. The impact is not with the instep, its with the shin, just above the ankle. The structure of the instep is not bone, its a spread of tendons similar to the back of your hand. For a powerful break with a roundhouse kick; you would use the ball of your foot, Shotokan style. Would you use the back of your hand to break a real board? No, you would use the heel of your hand or your knuckles. It's the same with the instep, not only is it painful; you can hurt yourself as it is almost impossible to condition it.
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harkon72 wrote:
Hammer is right, the video of the Thai Boxer smashing the banana tree is misleading. The impact is not with the instep, its with the shin, just above the ankle. The structure of the instep is not bone, its a spread of tendons similar to the back of your hand. For a powerful break with a roundhouse kick; you would use the ball of your foot, Shotokan style. Would you use the back of your hand to break a real board? No, you would use the heel of your hand or your knuckles. It's the same with the instep, not only is it painful; you can hurt yourself as it is almost impossible to condition it.
I've done it before, and suffered no ill affects from it. But its not something I do every time I break. I regularly break with the ball of the foot for round kicks. I merely mentioned that it can be done, but its not a good idea doing very many boards.
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many here have used a roundhouse knee kick to break? We do it because the kick is an important close range technique for us. The break, at first takes some getting use to, but once the fear of getting your fingers smashed or being afraid you'll smash a holders fingers, is worked out, it's downhill from there.



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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
How many here have used a roundhouse knee kick to break? We do it because the kick is an important close range technique for us. The break, at first takes some getting use to, but once the fear of getting your fingers smashed or being afraid you'll smash a holders fingers, is worked out, it's downhill from there.


I've never tried this. Interesting. Is the board held at a 45 degree angle, at about waist level?
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sensei8
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
How many here have used a roundhouse knee kick to break? We do it because the kick is an important close range technique for us. The break, at first takes some getting use to, but once the fear of getting your fingers smashed or being afraid you'll smash a holders fingers, is worked out, it's downhill from there.


I've never tried this. Interesting. Is the board held at a 45 degree angle, at about waist level?

Waist high? Yes! 45 degree? Not all time: sometimes it's 45 degrees and other times it's straight up and down.



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Harkon72
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Location: Wales
Styles: Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Ninpo.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a fan of breaking, I have done it and for us it was a choice. Students of Shorinji Ryu don't have it as part of their grading. Or at least my Sensei never asked me to do it. I did train with a gentleman on Anglesey who was a breaking specialist, he lived in my home town. He never asked for an audience, he never used domino chips to space the boards, tiles or blocks. He never set them alight or had a row of dancing girls. But his breaking power of inanimate objects was truly awesome. He was the fist guy I ever saw twist a clinker brick in half. That is not a word of a lie. He taught me to align my body behind a punch and relax. This next story will leave you thinking that I am crazy and that it happened in a dream, but this is true. I was in London in 1994 at the Steel Wire Mantis School of Kung Fu in Mile End. The day's highlight was a New Year display by some Chinese Kung Fu artists from Hong Kong. The gentleman had a concrete pillar to waist height placed in the middle of the hall. On this he placed a steel WWII tommy helmet which the crowd had previously examined, and it was genuine. After some Qi Gung, the man stepped forward and with his phoenix fist knuckle made an inch diameter hole in the crown of the antique head gear. That is true, I saw it with my own eyes and I was as sober as a judge. These guys would not dishonour such a gathering with a mere trick, and with my regard for this forum I would not mention it here if it were not true. I left inspired, myself, I am not super human and I don't aspire to be, but that experience will stay with me for ever.
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DWx
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
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Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
hammer wrote:
Knew someone who tried board breaking with the instep but from what I remember that didn't go too well...


This is doable. I've done up to two boards myself, but I make sure to do it as a front leg kick, and I really snap it out there and back.

It does sting a little, and it leaves some pretty cool red marks around the bones of the foot for a little while.

I was at a grading once where one guy going for his 4th dan did what looked to me like a chopping board with his instep. It had to be at least an inch thick and made of a hardwood too. Broke it but his foot swelled up to like golf ball size.
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Harkon72
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Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 1875
Location: Wales
Styles: Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Ninpo.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danielle, that makes sense; that part of your foot is a poor weapon for tough targets. We can argue that you could smash a person's shin with your instep, this is true; but if you struggle to walk afterwards, I think it's a poor exchange.
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