Roundhouse kick. Instep or shin, and conditioning

OneKickWonder · Purple Belt

Hi all

I've fastened an old car tyre to a rope in our garden. It doubles as a swing for the kids, and a thing for me to practice low kicks when the kids aren't playing on it.

Of course I've kicked pads and my fellow students plenty of times. The former with full force, the latter less so. But the old car tyre is not a nice comfy pad. It's quite harsh to kick with any force. Much like a human leg might be.

This got me to thinking. In karate and TSD and the likes, we typically strike with the Instep. The muy thai guys I believe strike with the shin. I can see the logic to the latter. The shin bones are considerably more substantial than the tiny little bones of the feet.

So what do we think is best in general terms? Instep or shin?

Having never practiced muy thai, I can't say I even know if there's a particular part of the shin they strike with.

I know they like to do various brutal conditioning exercises, but for those of us not wanting to inflict self torture, is it worth while kicking the tyre with force despite mild pain developing? Or is that just archaic silliness?

sensei8 · KF Sensei

As always, to each their own, just as long as it's effective!! I've kicked with the instep as well as the shin, with me, the methodology depended on positioning as well as my intent.

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JR 137 · Black Belt

I kick with both. It depends on the target. And my position. The lower my kick and/or the closer I am, the more I use the shin. The higher I kick and/or the further away I am, I use my instep.

If I could reach every target with my shin, I’d use that almost exclusively, to be honest. It feels more like a “thud” and less like a “smack.” Being 5’9”, having a 29” inseam, and being inflexible, the only people I’m kicking in the head with my shin are oompah lumpahs.

Kicking higher than my own belt is a dojo sparring thing, to be honest. While I’m pretty sure I’d never do it in an actual encounter, you never know. If I really wanted to kick someone in the head in a true fight, I’d only do it if their head was on the ground or very close to it. So I don’t think about it much. I’d shin kick their thighs, knees, lower leg, etc. if I kicked at all.

MatsuShinshii · Black Belt

What does your art teach? Shin or instep?

In any art there is a method for striking, what weapon is to be used and how and what to strike on the opponent (target). If your practicing while using the instep in class every day, it would be silly and counter productive to condition your shins. Why? because you do not use this part of your body during training and thus would be less likely to use it in a real altercation. Condition what you train with and it will serve you when it's needed.

I wouldn't suggest starting with a tire for conditioning. Everyone wants to get right to the finish line but in conditioning this could be literally the finish. You need to start out with soft targets and work your way up incrementally over a long time to harder and harder targets. Striking the edge of a steel belted tire with your instep or shin is going to do quite a bit of damage and possibly a break or damage to tendons, veins, etc.

I used to think that having big gnarly knuckles was cool when I was a kid. I thought those that sported these grotesque knuckles must be able to hit anything. NOT the case. I have been training for over three decades and Makiwara (along with other equipment and conditioning methods) have been a daily regimen. My knuckles are not hideously deformed because I condition them correctly. Being able to strike without harm to yourself is the goal. Sporting huge purple swollen knuckles does not mean you are properly conditioned, it means you have done damage to them. Striking a tire and doing damage does little good towards achieving your conditioning goals and worse may put you backwards in your training if you do serious damage. Even striking the tire flat could do damage.

If you condition correctly any body part can be used. Even fingers and toes.
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OneKickWonder · Purple Belt

Our style features kicks with the instep or the ball of the foot for roundhouse. Preference goes to instep.

But my feet are not great. There's a number of chronic problems in them. Not bad enough to stop me training, but enough to make me have to adapt certain techniques.

As for what I'd I'm a real confrontation, probably very little in the way of TSD kicks.

tallgeese · Black Belt

Shin is my preferred. It's nature's little baseball bat and far more likely to survive full contact than the instep. Look at the anatomy of the foot. You've got several small bones connected longitudinally to a stack of other small bones. This lends it to injury. The whole thing is supported by ligaments that are small in comparison to the muscles in the leg. Now it's possible to hurt not just the bone but also the soft tissue with contact.

Consider also that you're not always going to hit your target. People move, they block, or you just target wrong. That instep in an elbow is going to leave a mark. The shin will hurt, but you'll likely be up and fighting still.
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JazzKicker · Orange Belt

Either way it's good practice to do conditioning.
In JKD they're big on stop hitting, kicking the shin to intercept a kick. Basic foam sparring gear is NOT enough to protect your shins against that, some guys use hockey pads for practice.
Using the shin offensively to kick is OK if you're conditioned, or you use it against something softer, like Thai style against a thigh. Using instep works OK against ribs, and also gives some extra reach to kick head level. But if you want to hurt somebody, use ball of foot. It has the added advantage of being able to sneak in past a block

Spartacus Maximus · Black Belt

Conditioning for the instep follows the same process as any other striking surface, however greater care must be taken to avoid injury. A sand bag or canvas bag is a good start before gradually moving onto a padded post or car tire. As for the application, the weapon depends on the target. The big toe is for “soft” targets such as the kidney or liver area. The instep near the root of the ankle would be preferred to strike at the legs or other hard targets for breaking bones. The hard/soft opposition is a common principle in Okinawan karate and it is used to dictate how and where to hit.

JR 137 · Black Belt

RW · Green Belt

it depends on how you're kicking.

MT kicks are like a baseball bat strike. Karate/TKD kicks are more like a whip. If you're "chamber kicking" like in Karate and TKD, you want to use the instep, if you're kicking like in MT, the shin.

Having said that, Anderson Silva's shin fracture still sends chills down my spine. I am not sure that could happen with an instep kick, since your knee and ankle will move if push comes to shove. I guess you could break the foot bones, but that can't be as bad as a shin fracture?

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