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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1888

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:07 pm    Post subject: same lineage, different body Reply with quote

Has any one reached out to different associations or groups within their own martial arts lineage to train together?
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Zaine
Black Belt
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Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2242
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be interested to hear cases of this as well. My guess is that the answer is that it does not often happen to do internal politicking and the reason that there are disparate organizations in the first place. My original school didn't even associate itself with my sensei's sensei.
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aurik
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 458
Location: Denver, CO
Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few years ago, I had a job that had me traveling to the Bay Area semi-regularly. I found a group with Uechi-Ryu Okikukai, and met with them to train with while I was out there. Their organization does the same kata, warmups, and hojo undo that we do, but some nuances are slightly different, and their yakusoku kumite drills are different. Within their differences, I found some good nuggets of information that I have since incorporated into my own karate.

Every so often, our CI will bring in senior Uechi-Ryu practitioners both from within our organization and from other organizations. Earlier this year, he brought out Seishi Itokazu (10th dan Uechi Ryu Konan Kai, 10th dan Matayoshi Kobudo) to run seminars in Uechi-Ryu and Matayoshi Kobudo. Right before the pandemic, he brought in Darrin Yee (9th dan Uechi-Ryu, head of IUKF) to run a seminar as well.

He also regularly travels to various seminars run by different Uechi-Ryu organizations. Sometimes he teaches at these seminars, sometimes he just attends the various breakout sessions. When he comes back to our dojo, he will share some of the nuggets he picked up.

As you progress in your journey, I find it to be valuable to learn from different instructors -- they have different perspectives, different ways of teaching, and different ways of doing things that you can incorporate into your karate. Because in the end, your karate is YOUR karate. It can be shaped by your instructors, and guided by others, but in the end it's what you make of it.
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Fat Cobra
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 14 Jul 2018
Posts: 343
Location: Watertown, NY
Styles: Ryukyu Kempo

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aurik wrote:
As you progress in your journey, I find it to be valuable to learn from different instructors -- they have different perspectives, different ways of teaching, and different ways of doing things that you can incorporate into your karate. Because in the end, your karate is YOUR karate. It can be shaped by your instructors, and guided by others, but in the end it's what you make of it.


Well said, aurik. Well said.

Karate no Michi!
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Montana
Pre-Black Belt
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 861
Location: Formerly Kalispell, Montana, now Spokane, WA
Styles: Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo & Kobudo

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to reach out to other sensei within my chosen system to learn, as my sensei moved out of state abruptly and left our class hanging. I was one year as a shodan at the time.

I was in a small town (12,000 people) in north central Montana with limited financial resources and I was pretty much on my own with the remnants of my sensei's class. I found a 4th dan sensei that my sensei knew in Minnesota and took the train there to work with him for a weekend. He literally changed EVERYTHING that I had learned.

After about 2 years I heard of a sensei in Texas that was a 7th dan, contacted him and we talked several times over the phone (pre-internet days). He sent me 3 VHS tapes with some GREAT stuff, and changed EVERYTHING back to the way I originally did it! boy, was I PO'D!

Then I heard of a 6th dan in Seattle and he was hosting a weekend seminar for the head of our system, so I drove there to attend that. I did this twice over a 6 year period.

I was pretty desperate if I wanted to continue in my system.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16246
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: same lineage, different body Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
Has any one reached out to different associations or groups within their own martial arts lineage to train together?

Within the Shindokan lineage and different organizations/groups?? Nope...not as of yet since our Governing Body closed several years ago. Dojo's within the SKKA network after the closure, have branched into their own organizations/groups, and I've not reached out to them for that opportunity for no particular reason(s).

Reached out and trained with many other styles that are either Shuri-te, but not to many Okinawa-te, based for many years ever since I began cross training. Love the fact that not every Shuri-te based styles are exactly the same in methodology and ideology, well, at least not in the Shindokan way, and to me, that's very refreshing.



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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
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Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1888

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To everyone in general and Sensei8 in particular, letís say you have been graded up to 2dan under the head of a traditional Okinawan karate association, a 9th or 10th Dan. That governing body has different different associations that are run by others of equal experience. All of whom were taught by the founder(who was taught by Chibana Chosin

Is it possible to approach these other instructors to pursue your training without ruffling any feathers or stepping on any toes if that is the only way to continue because life happened and it is no longer possible to train under your original instructor more than once a year?
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16246
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That might be the million dollar question.

While that might seem quite possible on the surface to approach said given instructor for continued training, however, behind closed doors those instructors can be quite guarded across the board. Training for a moment isn't the same when one's considering long term training; trust is a very high commodity for Sensei's, especially Okinawan Sensei's.

It's that guarded approach that makes one, who's basically a stranger, feel like a red-headed stepchild. If one's going to approach an Okinawan Sensei for any type of training in Okinawa, one better not just show up and ask, better have an advocate to make the initial contact for them.

Proof is one the floor, and seeing that it is, proving oneself while on and off the floor for continued training, no matter if it's for just a season or long term is a reality that must be embraced wholeheartedly.

That's been the experience that I've witnessed and was instructed by both our Soke and Dai-Soke, who were both born and raised in Okinawa. Our founder despised anything and everything with the powers that be in Okinawa, which is the main reason why they both opened shop in the USA.

However, nothing ventured is nothing gained. The first step has to be made.

For me, my Soke and Dai-Soke have passed away some time ago, there's no one that can continue my training in Shindokan, therefore, I'll have to continue taking cold showers.



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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
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Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1888

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My particular case is that life happened and due to unforeseen circumstances, training with my teacher more than once a year is no longer practical. Going to him would involve costly and long air travel( 15hrs!). He is the grandmaster of a Hombu dojo(there are several as per the last wishes of the founder).

Several of his peers and students( 7th to 9th dans) head their own branch dojos or organizations in places much closer to where I reside. Each of theses are recognized and, as far as I can gather they regularly have opportunities to train together. The only things I donít know is their personal views and relationships to each other.
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