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DarthPenguin
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2021
Posts: 726
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ
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 Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| aurik wrote: |
| ...traditional Okinawan masters DID use weight training to get stronger. They frequently used Nigiri Game (clay jars which could be filled with sand or water) to increase forearm, grip, and upper body strength in Sanchin. Likewise they used chi ishi (stone mallets) to provide weight training as well. Look at some of the master instructors like Shinyu Gushi that would train sanchin with clay jars. |
Yes, I've seen these things before, and in the book, he even demonstrates going through Sanchin with chishi. I see this as an issue of holding onto the past for way too long, and not embracing more modern ideas. For example, I think something similar could be achieved using dumbbells instead of trying to make old stone mallets.
Another issue I have altogether is that too many people try to make their strength training look like their sport/activity, in order to make it more "functional." The problem with this approach is that it completely fails to understand what strength training is. Strength training is a general physical adaptation. Lots of people like to think they can get "baseball strong" or "football strong" or "karate strong" by trying to make their "strength" training look like the moves they do in their sport/activity, when they would be better off training for overall strength the right way, using good programming and progressive overload to make the entire body strong, which will then transition into athletic performance. Hence, like I mentioned earlier, no taking strength training advise from Martial Arts instructors.
Ok, rant over. |
there is some really good stuff by Martin Rooney (he used to train a lot of UFC fighters for S&C - not sure if he still does or doesn't) on how silly this approach can be. Jim Wendler goes over it a lot too.
I have always agreed that if you train to improve your strength or power as much as possible in the most efficient way possible then the martial arts training then seeks to apply that strength and power to your techniques.
As a personal example, the one exercise i noticed that had the single largest impact on my martial art training in the past was the hang power snatch. I almost immediately could feel greater hip explosion when grappling or kicking. Close second was the front squat for core strength. |
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Zaine
Black Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2247
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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Chapter 3: The Mechanics of Being in the Moment
I lost my book for a bit. However, with it now found I can continue.
I think this is a really cool title for the chapter. However, I do wish that he would have actually talked about the mechanics of being in the moment. I don't feel that he achieved that to any degree. He spends some a lot of time writing disparate facts about the brain, some of which are outdated, and fails to really bring it all together. I think that the worst thing here is that he fails to bring it back to Sanchin. Wilder talks a lot without consideration for the subject matter of the book. If he were to circle all of these random metaphors and allegories back into Sanchin, I think that the book would be much better. Instead, I get long-winded, dry, semi-educated information on the adrenal system with no relation to Sanchin in any way.
I have two English degrees, and cannot really comment with any authority on all of this biological information. I just don't think that it has much of a place in this book. It feels like Wilder has a word count to hit and is ginning up any tangentially related subject to meet that criteria.
Wilder says two statements here that, to me, stick out as being statements about Sanchin and Martial Arts. The first is this:
| Kris Wilder wrote: |
| The creators of sanchin kata knew of [the benefits of slowing down movement in learning] far before the invention of high-speed film. Sanchin kata breaks down the movements into the incremental principles that need to be understood to gain the skills necessary to become proficient at the art of the empty hand. |
It seems here that he is suggesting that Sanchin is performed slowly as a learning tool. I disagree with this, and my analysis on this is what started this thread in the first place, so I won't go through the whole thing again. Briefly, Sanchin teaches us about dynamic tension. It teaches when to relax, when to be tense, and how to breath. It's ease of learning has nothing to do with its speed.
The second quote:
| Kris Wilder wrote: |
| Sanchin is translated as "three battles" or difficulties. The accepted three are mind, body, and spirit. |
I think this is a good analysis of the kata. Sanchin is good at teaching you how to balance these things within the moment. I often to Sanchin as a way to meditate. It helps me to remove myself from a strong emotion to see things more objectively.
These two quotes were in the introduction paragraphs of this chapter. I think if Wilder had spoken towards these things, then the chapter would have been far more cohesive. Putting these lines in the introduction made me think that this was what we were going to be talking about and I found it odd when he took a left turn and began to discuss biology.
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Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.
https://www.instagram.com/nordic_karate/ |
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Wayofaswede
Orange Belt
Joined: 16 Jan 2017
Posts: 212
Location: Sweden
Styles: Shito-ryu, Goju-ryu
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2023 3:48 am Post subject: |
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Just a quick note about the kata Tensho that I saw mentioned in the beginning of the thread:
In our style (CI mixes Shito and Goju ryu) Tensho is the ”soft” compliment to the ”hard” Sanchin.
I usually do Sanchin as one of the first katas every solo session and do Tensho as one of the katas towards the end.
In our club Sanchin is taught for green belt, while Tensho is required for my next grade, 1 kyu
There’s a great series on YouTube ”Okinawa karate masters” that ties in well with many aspects of the discussion here, I’ll link to the one about Tensho, you can find much more in the channel:
https://youtu.be/QM7IZ0gnOzw
_________________
The path so far: 2 kyu Karate (Shito-ryu), 3 kyu Aikido (Aikikai), 5 kyu Judo, 9 kyu Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu
Not a day without a kata |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30008
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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Zaine
Black Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2247
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2023 9:06 am Post subject: |
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I agree. Zanshin is an important concept to MA as a whole, but especially so in Sanchin. They even have the benefit of sounding alike. I would have like to see a lot more talk about it as a concept.
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Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.
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Baka718
White Belt
Joined: 15 Jul 2020
Posts: 9
Styles: Wrestling, Judo
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| Any other books out there with extensive coverage of the Sanchin Kata? I rather not read a book talking discussing the Golden Ratio being applied to the Sanchin Kata. |
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