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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 1935


PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:02 pm    Post subject: Self Defence Is Not Enough Reply with quote

Self defence is not enough.

Things are not always as they seem. A person defending themselves (on the street) could look like the attacker from the onlookers perspective.

To defend oneself, also need to have some body language, that supports your actions.

Verbally shouting "No! No!" would help your case. Also moving in a none threatening way.

Victims can often look like the attacker if they have martial arts training.

Therefore consider your fellow citizens if confronted, while battling it out, call out "Someone call the police" while you have the attacker in a headlock.

Witnesses need to be on your side, your verbal clues and body language needs to match your intent.

Onlookers or witnesses, perhaps were preoccupied and not see who started the altercation, the consequences could result in that the public opinion at that moment turns against you.

A policeman, was once trying to break up a fight between two men and in the heat of the moment and in the confusion shot the both of them.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27502
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We teach to talk all the time, giving verbal commands during training so that we do so in a confrontation. Saying things like, "stop resisting!" or "stop fighting!" and giving commands like "get on the ground!" or "your under arrest!" Other phrases that key in on what is really happening helps other officers to realize the severity of what is going on. When we train choke defenses, we yell "stop choking me!" When we train weapon retention, we yell things like "gun grab!" or "he's got my gun! he's got my gun!" If an officer hears a fellow officer yelling that, it keys the other officer in on what level of force to come into the fight with. Civilians in a self-defense situation can yell similar things out that might help others around to realize who the aggressor is. Also, witnesses telling police officers that one person kept yelling "leave me alone" or "I don't want to fight" can be very helpful in shaking out who started what.

In the case of body language, there are a few things that can make a difference. Holding hands up in what is commonly referred to as the "fence" position (hands open and facing the aggressor in a placating manner, but up high to protect the face) is much less aggressive looking than the typical hands up in balled up fists position. These are just a few things that can help others determine who might be the aggressor and who might be the victim.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14145
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're correct...self defense is not enough...at least by itself. One must be proactive across the board when one's expecting to excel in self defense. Otherwise, nothing of any good will come out from it!!

Experts have determined through research that most people ignore "Help", but will investigate the whereabouts when someone calls out, "Fire"' because we, humans, are a curious bunch.

Like in anything that is the MA, if one's not proactive about it, then it will be of little use to them at all levels.



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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27502
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ideally, these concepts would be taught in concordance with a self-defense course, and thus, self-defense would be enough.
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Tempest
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 416
Location: Tulsa, OK
Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

Imma just leave this RIIIGHT here....

Mostly because I am a big fan of Marc's work, but also because this site is a godsend to someone just starting out in self defense.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 1935


PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Self defence is not enough" This is the topic I started due to being in a few situations that warrant discussion.

At the age of about nine years old, I was violently attacked be a woman beating me with an umbrella, the event took place in a market place.

The woman obviously had me confused with someone else, as I was 100% innocent.

No one helped me from this crazy umbrella wielding woman.

She freighted the life out of me, as I was on my way, visiting my mother working nearby in a supermarket.

Looking back at the incident, bystanders could quickly assume that I was guilty of something.

No one stopped her from beating me and no one (thank goodness) helped her to hurt me further.

Point being, assumptions can be more convincing than reality.
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AlexBoyKing
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 07 Feb 2017
Posts: 4
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:24 am    Post subject: Agreed Reply with quote

@Alan Armstrong - I agree. If you don't have a weapon like a knife or a gun, self defence can be useless. The best defence is as they say is a strong offence. If you feel like some thing is about to go down, either walk away or be brutal (Like Batman). I prefer the latter and then disappear before the cops show up.

Someone mentioned the cops here . . . cops can't do anything without evidence. You are literally on your own bud.
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1673

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Self-defense is only enough if and only if it is done with the goal of escaping as fast as possible and with the least degree of force needed to get away. This speaks for itself. It is very, very difficult for anyone to claim that a a person obviously struggling to get away is at fault or see that person as the attacker.

If a person breaks away and runs at the first opportunity and hits/injures one's attacker in the process of escaping, potential witnesses will see or report just that. Hit hard and run like the bejeezus is always the best thing to do. No need to stick around or fret about what might happen if one isn't there.

Who is foolish enough to wait around? Either the attackers supporters get there or the law gets there first. One way or another, if one is still there it will be both costly and painful.
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
Self-defense is only enough if and only if it is done with the goal of escaping as fast as possible and with the least degree of force needed to get away. This speaks for itself. It is very, very difficult for anyone to claim that a a person obviously struggling to get away is at fault or see that person as the attacker.

If a person breaks away and runs at the first opportunity and hits/injures one's attacker in the process of escaping, potential witnesses will see or report just that. Hit hard and run like the bejeezus is always the best thing to do. No need to stick around or fret about what might happen if one isn't there.

Who is foolish enough to wait around? Either the attackers supporters get there or the law gets there first. One way or another, if one is still there it will be both costly and painful.


That's why if you're going to fight for ego, you need to plant the seed into the minds of those around you. Whilst pummeling your opponent, continuously shout "hes got my wallet!"

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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 1935


PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJ-Jitsu wrote:
Spartacus Maximus wrote:
Self-defense is only enough if and only if it is done with the goal of escaping as fast as possible and with the least degree of force needed to get away. This speaks for itself. It is very, very difficult for anyone to claim that a a person obviously struggling to get away is at fault or see that person as the attacker.

If a person breaks away and runs at the first opportunity and hits/injures one's attacker in the process of escaping, potential witnesses will see or report just that. Hit hard and run like the bejeezus is always the best thing to do. No need to stick around or fret about what might happen if one isn't there.

Who is foolish enough to wait around? Either the attackers supporters get there or the law gets there first. One way or another, if one is still there it will be both costly and painful.


That's why if you're going to fight for ego, you need to plant the seed into the minds of those around you. Whilst pummeling your opponent, continuously shout "hes got my wallet!"

Or

"Stop I don't want to hurt you"

works also.
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