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Archimoto
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 12 Apr 2014
Posts: 548

Styles: JKD / Muay Thai / TKD

PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
In my opinion, if you are in a Martial Arts class, you should be learning self-defense. Not everyone thinks this way, though, and its my opinion only. Hopefully what you spend time learning as a Martial Art has a side effect of lending to self-defense abilitiy.


My sentiments exactly!!!
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manjeet036
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 20 Dec 2014
Posts: 2


PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am big fan of karate.. I want to learn karate because want to do self defense...
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Harkon72
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 1875
Location: Wales
Styles: Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Ninpo.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As was said, your self defence awareness will improve through karate training. It's a sad fact though that most modern martial arts teaching is useless in a real fight.
Karate - Do you think a real opponent will bounce up and down and mirror you at a nice mid distance so you can exchange techniques with him?
Aikido - Do you think that your fight will be over when the opponent rolls away from you? If don't disable him, he will get up.
Tae Kwon Do - Do you think you can rely on kicking techniques and long arm punches when you are confronted in a confined space such as on public transport?
Krav Maga - Do you think you will be able to disarm someone with a hand gun faster than they can move their finger to pull a trigger?
Brazilian Ju Jitsu - Do you think that going to ground always hands you the advantage? How will you fare against more than one opponent?
As you can see, each and every martial art has its challenges, and here I have included the ones I train in first. There are solutions, train and you will find them.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14145
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harkon72 wrote:
As was said, your self defence awareness will improve through karate training. It's a sad fact though that most modern martial arts teaching is useless in a real fight.
Karate - Do you think a real opponent will bounce up and down and mirror you at a nice mid distance so you can exchange techniques with him?
Aikido - Do you think that your fight will be over when the opponent rolls away from you? If don't disable him, he will get up.
Tae Kwon Do - Do you think you can rely on kicking techniques and long arm punches when you are confronted in a confined space such as on public transport?
Krav Maga - Do you think you will be able to disarm someone with a hand gun faster than they can move their finger to pull a trigger?
Brazilian Ju Jitsu - Do you think that going to ground always hands you the advantage? How will you fare against more than one opponent?
As you can see, each and every martial art has its challenges, and here I have included the ones I train in first. There are solutions, train and you will find them.

Solid post!!



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vantheman
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 18 Apr 2012
Posts: 249

Styles: Chinese Kempo Karate, Brazilian Jujitsu

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Self Defense is a pretty broad horizon.

For example, getting a permit for carrying a hand gun could be just as much self defense training as anything else. And remember physical ability is only one of many aspects of self defense (others being awareness, legal understanding, running away, ect.) Krav Maga will get you the basics within a short period of time. MMA is good at creating a well rounded arsenal whilst getting you in good shape, and nearly every one of its techniques has self defense applications. At the end of the day, any martial art worth training will have some self defense in it. Some may require more training and/or changes in application to be useful in self defense (Tai Chi, for example), and many will not cover every aspect of fighting (i.e. BJJ by itself doesn't having striking, part of why MMA is so versatile), but most legitimate arts will cover enough to help you survive a bout with the average Joe. As far as fighting trained attackers, you would need to look at your strengths and weaknesses as a combatant, and possibly look into weapon training (knifes and guns, that is).

As far as superfluous techniques go, my experience generally shows that traditional martial arts tend to have more than MMA will. Not trying to spark any arguments, but generally speaking, MMA practitioners are forced by their nature to use things that are immediately practical and cut out the excess. Not to say that traditional MAs are a waste by any means whatsoever, but TMAs may require more training to get something applicable in uncontrolled situations.
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Van

Chinese Kempo Karate, Sandan
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27502
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vantheman wrote:
As far as superfluous techniques go, my experience generally shows that traditional martial arts tend to have more than MMA will. Not trying to spark any arguments, but generally speaking, MMA practitioners are forced by their nature to use things that are immediately practical and cut out the excess. Not to say that traditional MAs are a waste by any means whatsoever, but TMAs may require more training to get something applicable in uncontrolled situations.


There is something to be said for this. I'm not of the opinion that it holds true all the time, but when you are actively trying to knock someone out that is trying to knock you out, or take you down and defend from the takedown, and all that, it tends to weed out low percentage options pretty quick. But, not every self-defense situation is not synonymous with a ring experience, either. So I think there are some types of techniques you will find in more traditional styles as useful for practicing for self-defense applications. What's important on the "traditional" side of things is to make sure to start training application drills that are as live as possible as soon as possible, instead of always sticking with the traditional class orientation.
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Harkon72
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 1875
Location: Wales
Styles: Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Ninpo.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've said it before here, and I'll say it again; any martial art can be world class with the right teacher. A good martial artist is not always the best teacher either. I have been very disappointed with some systems only to realise that it was the way it was taught that was to blame. If you go every week and get your head kicked in; you will not learn anything. If you go and do postures and movements that you don't know what they are; again you are wasting your time. There are excellent teachers out there, go and find them. Never judge a book by its cover and go with an open mind. You might be surprised, even in the most unlikely places. If anyone tells you things like; "This is the best system in the World!" or "I'm a black belt in 10 martial arts!" just smile at them, they need the money for therapy.
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vantheman
Orange Belt
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Joined: 18 Apr 2012
Posts: 249

Styles: Chinese Kempo Karate, Brazilian Jujitsu

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
vantheman wrote:
As far as superfluous techniques go, my experience generally shows that traditional martial arts tend to have more than MMA will. Not trying to spark any arguments, but generally speaking, MMA practitioners are forced by their nature to use things that are immediately practical and cut out the excess. Not to say that traditional MAs are a waste by any means whatsoever, but TMAs may require more training to get something applicable in uncontrolled situations.


There is something to be said for this. I'm not of the opinion that it holds true all the time, but when you are actively trying to knock someone out that is trying to knock you out, or take you down and defend from the takedown, and all that, it tends to weed out low percentage options pretty quick. But, not every self-defense situation is not synonymous with a ring experience, either. So I think there are some types of techniques you will find in more traditional styles as useful for practicing for self-defense applications. What's important on the "traditional" side of things is to make sure to start training application drills that are as live as possible as soon as possible, instead of always sticking with the traditional class orientation.


I agree entirely. It's in no way the same as a self defense scenario (or at least not most of them), but often has the most realistic moves and applications, simply because if it doesn't work against someone resisting and actively trying to hurt you, they won't bother with it. And of course there are exceptions, but that's part of why there is such awesome variety when it comes to martial arts
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Van

Chinese Kempo Karate, Sandan
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Luther unleashed
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 661
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel that stikes are one of the most effective self defense approaches. Also, the more simple the technuiqes the more easily you can perform it under stress, and with adrenaline flowing and what not.

As for traditional martial arts and it's place in real self defense? Some schools will focus on this more then others as many schools have different goals such as tournament/sport based schools, mental discipline or health as the focus and so on. I sought out martial arts for self defense reasons, so I always approached my training with this in mind. Traditional martial arts can get very complex and many technuiqes take years to really "get it". However, you can use the technuiqes you learn on a way that adapts easily to real world defense in many cases, and you will fair better to remember the statement above, the easier the technuiqes are, the better chance you have to make them actually work.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 1935


PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Self defence is not difficult to learn. It just takes a teacher willing to teach a student self defense principles that work in the every day world.

How to physically and mentally react to threatening situations.

How to recognize the danger signs.

How to move out of harms way and in to an advantageous position.

How to disarm an attacker without getting hurt doing it.

Martial arts combined with self defense needs an urgent overhaul.

Martial arts and self defense is about knowing how to move one's body correctly as not to get hurt. Everything else is tuition fees.
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