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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vantheman wrote:
Self Defense is a pretty broad horizon.
Krav Maga will get you the basics within a short period of time. MMA is good at creating a well rounded arsenal whilst getting you in good shape, and nearly every one of its techniques has self defense applications. At the end of the day, any martial art worth training will have some self defense in it. Some may require more training and/or changes in application to be useful in self defense (Tai Chi, for example), and many will not cover every aspect of fighting (i.e. BJJ by itself doesn't having striking, part of why MMA is so versatile), but most legitimate arts will cover enough to help you survive a bout with the average Joe. As far as fighting trained attackers, you would need to look at your strengths and weaknesses as a combatant, and possibly look into weapon training (knifes and guns, that is).

As far as superfluous techniques go, my experience generally shows that traditional martial arts tend to have more than MMA will. Not trying to spark any arguments, but generally speaking, MMA practitioners are forced by their nature to use things that are immediately practical and cut out the excess. Not to say that traditional MAs are a waste by any means whatsoever, but TMAs may require more training to get something applicable in uncontrolled situations.


Meh, you're jumping to conclusions a little quickly here. The reason why strikes arent taught in BJJ is because they dont need to be. One does not need to be train how to punch from the mount- its quite easy. Needless to say if you want to learn how to strike then yes, BJJ isnt for you. Unfortunately any style that attempts to teach all 3 facets of the fight (striking, clinch, ground) tends to be modest at best in any 3. In short, watered down.

In regards to mma fighters only practicing things that are immediately practical... well yeah, thats the idea. I dont buy the whole "it needs to be practiced for 10 years to be effective." Something that never works will suddenly switch "on" after that final year? If it hasnt been working for you for the past 10 years you're either doing a bogus technique, or doing a legit technique the wrong way....




Harkon72 wrote:
Brazilian Ju Jitsu - Do you think that going to ground always hands you the advantage? How will you fare against more than one opponent?


Again I call shenanigans on these statements. This is the most common thing encountered with BJJ critics and the answer is always the same- BJJ does not teach you to fight multiple opponents, but NO martial art does. All the same people that claim to be able to teach you to defend yourself against many often prove to be unable to defend themselves against one.... so hows that logic work? Basically we're both at odds fighting multiple people, so why even bother bringing it up?

If you actually do end up on the ground against multiple opponents you'll be glad you know how to fight on the ground so that you can protect yourself and stand up- at least better than anyone else can teach.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread looked interesting, and I figured I'd chime in.

My school ran a 6 week self-defense course for women last year. Several women participated, and about half of them ended up signing up for classes. We've managed to hang onto 2 or 3, I think (they're yellow belts, now.) Offering short self defense classes to the public (male, female, or both) could be a great way to recruit new students. They can get a feel for how martial arts training goes without the pressure of a possible long-term commitment, or the cost of a uniform. It also provides the community with a much-needed resource.
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5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do

(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1694

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any self-defense course or class that spends more time or physical techniques than ways to avoid violence or potential threats is nonsense at worst and wishful thinking at best. Self defense is 90% avoidance and threat management. Physical techniques are of no use if one is unable to read the signs of a potentially dangerous situation before needing to physically defend oneself.

The ideal self defense course should teach people to read and understand signs of potential danger and a few very simple counters to the most common attacks in social and criminal violence. It should also cover the difference between the two.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2023


PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
Any self-defense course or class that spends more time or physical techniques than ways to avoid violence or potential threats is nonsense at worst and wishful thinking at best. Self defense is 90% avoidance and threat management. Physical techniques are of no use if one is unable to read the signs of a potentially dangerous situation before needing to physically defend oneself.

The ideal self defense course should teach people to read and understand signs of potential danger and a few very simple counters to the most common attacks in social and criminal violence. It should also cover the difference between the two.
Solid post!!!!!
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27556
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Spartacus Maximus wrote:
Any self-defense course or class that spends more time or physical techniques than ways to avoid violence or potential threats is nonsense at worst and wishful thinking at best. Self defense is 90% avoidance and threat management. Physical techniques are of no use if one is unable to read the signs of a potentially dangerous situation before needing to physically defend oneself.

The ideal self defense course should teach people to read and understand signs of potential danger and a few very simple counters to the most common attacks in social and criminal violence. It should also cover the difference between the two.
Solid post!!!!!
I agree as well. Teaching people to stay out of dangerous places, travel in groups, and how to identify what predators are looking for in a victim are all parts of self-defense that are just as important as learning the physical techniques.

I think the problem is that this is the part of self-defense that most young people are least interested in hearing about, let alone learning. For instance, telling college-aged folks that staying out of the bars will increase the likelihood that they won't have to defend themselves is going to fall on a lot of deaf ears. On top of that, getting them to be able to identify the traits and characteristics of a potential attacker or an imminent attack while inebriated is an even further challenge.

Thus, the physical aspects of self-defense tends to always get the focus.

I also think that good verbal Judo, learning how to de-escalate a situation, and then learning how to talk to the police about what happened, are also very important parts of the whole of self-defense.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My former office mate was shot while walking from his house off campus to Wayne State University in Detroit. I used to walk from campus to Comerica Park about a decade ago. I never had an issue. Why? It could be luck. But I'd guess it'd have something to do with the way I carried myself.

I was always alert, looking around and not at the ground. No headphones screwed into my ears, either. Your hearing is at least as important as your sight. Use it! I would also say hi to people or nod as I walked by them, or if eye contact was made.

For the record: My office mate survived and made a full recovery, and last time I checked, still lived in Detroit. The only thing he suffered from in the long run was his pride. 50 Cent was shot 9 times, and my office mate only 3... so we called him "Sixteen and 2/3 Cent." He lost his street cred, however, when he started wearing bow ties and sweater vests to school. (For what it's worth, he had a good sense of humor about this!)
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5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do

(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
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