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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:16 am    Post subject: Self defense drills Reply with quote

While larking about with my kids and their friends, the Nerf guns came out. Or one of them did. A few of us had a go. Then I left the room and return with one of the bigger semi automatic Nerf guns. Pretending to be a psycho and much to the kids amusement, I started shooting said Nerf gun.

Having run out of ammo, I left the room to reload. This time when I came back, all the kids, laughing, did a reasonably good job of running for cover.

All this was harmless play.

But afterwards a thought occurred to me. There have been far too many tragic incidents where the shooter was not someone entertaining the kids in Nerf combat, but a real psycho with a real gun.

This got me to thinking. Can kids be educated to give themselves the best possible chance in the event of a real attack, simply by playing mock attacks with harmless Nerf guns or similar? Would it be possible to instill the sense of calm urgency needed to do the right thing in a genuinely terrify situation without getting all serious and grown up about it during a Saturday after play session? Would it even make any difference? After all, there is a massive difference between a dad firing very low velocity foam bullets and a genuine psycho with a genuine weapon.

Any thoughts?

As an aside, a friend of mine used to use a toy pellet gun to train mugging defences and disarms at his karate school.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14405
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent OP; thanks for starting this thread/topic, OneKickWonder!!

Quote:
Can kids be educated to give themselves the best possible chance in the event of a real attack, simply by playing mock attacks with harmless Nerf guns or similar? Would it be possible to instill the sense of calm urgency needed to do the right thing in a genuinely terrify situation without getting all serious and grown up about it during a Saturday after play session? Would it even make any difference?

Absolutely!!

The other tragedy is when we don't take the necessary steps to educate our students, and our own family, just in case the unforeseen occurs.

Kids of all ages and backgrounds can be educated, but the play has to be both practical and serious just enough to get the kids to pay attention while learning, as well as understand the severity of it all.

It all depends on how the CI approaches it!! That'll make a world of difference!!



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G95champ
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 3116
Location: Gilbert WV, USA
Styles: Shotokan Karate (FSKA)

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have advocated the fight back mentality for years. All studies show that people who huddle in a corner die!!! People who fight back, have better chances of survival.

Thankfully our school district changed last spring. We (teachers, school staff, and admin) went thought a training with local police where we rush the shooter, throw books, folders, etc. This does not allow the shooter to focus on the target and hopefully gives someone the opportunity to take him down.

We done this with paint balls. In every senecio where we didn't fight back but huddled over 90% of us were shot. In the situations where we threw nerd balls and sponges at the attacker less than 10% of us got shot before we could get the gun.

Given, you don't want 5-7 year old kids attacking a gunman but with the other option being stand in a corner and get shot, I'm telling little Johnny to throw books.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G95champ wrote:
I have advocated the fight back mentality for years. All studies show that people who huddle in a corner die!!! People who fight back, have better chances of survival.

Thankfully our school district changed last spring. We (teachers, school staff, and admin) went thought a training with local police where we rush the shooter, throw books, folders, etc. This does not allow the shooter to focus on the target and hopefully gives someone the opportunity to take him down.

We done this with paint balls. In every senecio where we didn't fight back but huddled over 90% of us were shot. In the situations where we threw nerd balls and sponges at the attacker less than 10% of us got shot before we could get the gun.

Given, you don't want 5-7 year old kids attacking a gunman but with the other option being stand in a corner and get shot, I'm telling little Johnny to throw books.


Interesting. All my active-shooter training sessions have said to do the opposite. Standing your ground seems like it should be the last thing to do for a number of reasons.

*Paint balls aren't much of a threat, so I suspect behavior might be different if real bullets are involved
*I am not sure how much I'd be able to perform "heroically" in such a situation. I trust other people much less than I trust myself
*All the federal guidelines I've read (written by law enforcement) suggests run -> hide -> fight, in that order
*Actually training to respond appropriately to such a situation requires regular intense training (SWAT- or infantry-level training.) Those jobs are done/should be done by special people with a strong sense of self-control who are able to keep calm in extremely stressful situations. Most people probably wouldn't qualify
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G95champ
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 3116
Location: Gilbert WV, USA
Styles: Shotokan Karate (FSKA)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can exit the building and run absolutely. I was referring tithe old option of hiding in a corner or closet vs spreading out and attacking the gunman.

No question that when it's real it changes the emotion but that's the point. If the shooter can aim while we hide under desks he will kill us. If he has to react to getting hit with books he is less lily to hit his targets.
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G95champ
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 3116
Location: Gilbert WV, USA
Styles: Shotokan Karate (FSKA)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ALICE

Is the system we took the training under.
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