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Zaine
Black Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2279
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA
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 Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Self grading seniors |
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| CredoTe wrote: |
| mal103 wrote: |
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What can we do about these people, others work damn hard to prove their worth and earn their rank. The first case above used his 5th Dan to grade someone to 3rd and to join a professional governing body! Do you think they should be told, do you think they will give a damn? |
In short, nothing directly. There will always be those who abuse their positions of authority, and cut corners for the sake of their egos (to obtain more authority). As for the governing body caring two bits, probably not because the Sandan is someone else to help spread the administration/overhead work around to. The only case I see the governing body caring is whether their reputation will be damaged by having said Sandan or Godan do what they're doing, and only if irrefutable proof can be shown.
How much sacrifice are you willing to go through to obtain said proof? And, in the end, is it worth it?
The way we handle these situations is to ignore those folks, and let the art prove itself. No arguing with them, no reasoning with them, just letting the art prove itself through the training/teaching. Those students that are more interested in trophies, belts, and egos will tend to go the way of the folks you mentioned above. However, those students that are in it for the training, learning, and the art, will eventually see through those guys and seek better training/learning.
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Great post!
The most important question is whether or not it is worth it. For me, that's a no. Being a good example of MA is the best thing that you can do.
_________________
Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.
https://www.instagram.com/nordic_karate/ |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Seniors that promote themselves, imho, must have some very lonely conversations with themselves. The support of self and the approval of self lacks the validity of said promotions, imho.
They've their reasons to do so, and for the life of me I can't understand, nor do I agree with their actions. But, that's my problem. They don't report to me, and they surely don't need my approval.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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IcemanSK
Black Belt
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 1084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Styles: Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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As frustrating as things like this are, there really isn't anything to do about it. But the real issue is to not let it get to you or allow it to get you down. Like life outside the training hall, some people think they should "get ahead" by cutting corners. It's easy to get down when you are doing it right the hard way, & other's don't. In reality, what other's do with their MA journey is on them.
Koreans don't ask what rank someone is. They ask, "how long have you trained?" When I keep that in mind, my perspective came into better focus.
Keep training & working through your own MA journey. You future is very bright.
_________________
Being a good fighter is One thing. Being a good person is Everything. Kevin "Superkick" McClinton |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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If a Senior Dan promotes him/herself, than, which ever rank said Senior was promoted accordingly before, imho, that's the rank that I'll recognize, nothing else.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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CredoTe
Red Belt
Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 776
Location: Ohio, USA
Styles: Matsubayashi-Ryu (Shorin-Ryu), Hung Gar (Hung Siu Lum)
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| IcemanSK wrote: |
As frustrating as things like this are, there really isn't anything to do about it. But the real issue is to not let it get to you or allow it to get you down. Like life outside the training hall, some people think they should "get ahead" by cutting corners. It's easy to get down when you are doing it right the hard way, & other's don't. In reality, what other's do with their MA journey is on them.
Koreans don't ask what rank someone is. They ask, "how long have you trained?" When I keep that in mind, my perspective came into better focus.
Keep training & working through your own MA journey. You future is very bright. |
Absolutely... Whenever training with the masters above me (Okinawans and Westerners, when they're able to visit the U.S.), they never ask about my rank. They ask, "How long have you trained?" And when I tell them, they always respond with, "Show me."
_________________
Remember the Tii!
In Life and Death, there is no tap-out... |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| CredoTe wrote: |
| IcemanSK wrote: |
As frustrating as things like this are, there really isn't anything to do about it. But the real issue is to not let it get to you or allow it to get you down. Like life outside the training hall, some people think they should "get ahead" by cutting corners. It's easy to get down when you are doing it right the hard way, & other's don't. In reality, what other's do with their MA journey is on them.
Koreans don't ask what rank someone is. They ask, "how long have you trained?" When I keep that in mind, my perspective came into better focus.
Keep training & working through your own MA journey. You future is very bright. |
Absolutely... Whenever training with the masters above me (Okinawans and Westerners, when they're able to visit the U.S.), they never ask about my rank. They ask, "How long have you trained?" And when I tell them, they always respond with, "Show me."
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YES!!
Then I'll add...my favorite saying...Proof is on the floor!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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CredoTe
Red Belt
Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 776
Location: Ohio, USA
Styles: Matsubayashi-Ryu (Shorin-Ryu), Hung Gar (Hung Siu Lum)
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| CredoTe wrote: |
| IcemanSK wrote: |
As frustrating as things like this are, there really isn't anything to do about it. But the real issue is to not let it get to you or allow it to get you down. Like life outside the training hall, some people think they should "get ahead" by cutting corners. It's easy to get down when you are doing it right the hard way, & other's don't. In reality, what other's do with their MA journey is on them.
Koreans don't ask what rank someone is. They ask, "how long have you trained?" When I keep that in mind, my perspective came into better focus.
Keep training & working through your own MA journey. You future is very bright. |
Absolutely... Whenever training with the masters above me (Okinawans and Westerners, when they're able to visit the U.S.), they never ask about my rank. They ask, "How long have you trained?" And when I tell them, they always respond with, "Show me."
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YES!!
Then I'll add...my favorite saying...Proof is on the floor!!
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_________________
Remember the Tii!
In Life and Death, there is no tap-out... |
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Archimoto
Purple Belt
Joined: 12 Apr 2014
Posts: 548
Styles: JKD / Muay Thai / TKD
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2014 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
Seniors that promote themselves, imho, must have some very lonely conversations with themselves.
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Awesome 
By the way I agree
_________________
To quote the great Bob Marley: "LOVE IS MY RELIGION" |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Rank can be fairly subjective in many cases. No two black belts are the same, even if they are the same rank.
In regards to how they achieve the rank, though, that's an integrity issue on their part. You could bring it up, but who will listen? Also, are you basing this information off what someone told you they heard, or do you have irrefutable proof that this is the case?
Your other option is to call them out personally the next time you see them. But, the only problem with this tactic is how it makes you look to those around. Depending on the audience, who knows how you will be received?
In the end, this just kind of sucks, because its no fun to see someone gain rank they don't deserve, or haven't earned. But, a lot of higer rank stuff tends to get political in nature, and as much as we would like to, we will never be able to filter politics out of the Martial Arts. If we did, we'd lose this great sub-forum to post in.... 
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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mal103
Purple Belt
Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 559
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| ……. Also, are you basing this information off what someone told you they heard, or do you have irrefutable proof that this is the case? |
They told me…. It didn’t feel right at the time and I kind of tried to justify it in my mind because they had spent a long time as a 3rd Dan so had put in the years overall. Although their reluctance to train elsewhere for years has meant their Karate has gone stale and is full of bad habits, I constantly had students question me who trained with both of us and the last grading we did together was a farce. We were happy to criticise others and to rant about standards but were becoming just as bad so I had no other option but to leave.
Their 4th Dan came from the governing body we were with at the time but they didn’t need to see them which was a bit odd. The 5th came by the backdoor as a friend of theirs got hold of a signed certificate. The other senior mentioned who skipped from 1st Kyu to Nidan was just word of mouth but I have no reason to doubt it.
I now train with another club as well as running my own and have been corrected on loads of things I was doing wrong, I have also been given alternative options of technique and kata based on different applications. I will endeavour to pass these things on and produce good students which is all I ever wanted to do. People with big ego’s and self importance that break all the rules can do their own thing but will be found out in the long run. |
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on the post.
