Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> General Martial Arts Discussion
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

username8517
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 459


PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the guys that trains with us is a retired cop with a little over twenty years experience. He always says that if you don't have witnesses proving it was self-defense then the three best things you can do are

1) when making a statement, tell the officer you were in fear for your life
2) if they press the issue ask for a lawyer
3) and shut up from that point on
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

gamedweeb
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 68

Styles: Bobby Lawrence Karate (Kwon Shu)

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds like simple and great advice.

I've also heard from people that you could specifically state that "I just wanted him(or her) to stop."
_________________
"I'd rather have 10 techniques that work for me than 100 techniques that work against me." -Ed Parker
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30167
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearich wrote:
One of the guys that trains with us is a retired cop with a little over twenty years experience. He always says that if you don't have witnesses proving it was self-defense then the three best things you can do are

1) when making a statement, tell the officer you were in fear for your life
2) if they press the issue ask for a lawyer
3) and shut up from that point on


These are some good pointers, I think. What someone must understand, however, is that even presenting themselves in this way, that they may still be charged with something, like Disorderly Conduct, most likely. Basically, when officers come up on a fight between two people, if the fight appears mutual to them, then both parties get arrested, and charged with Disorderly Conduct. Then, both have to post bond to leave jail, and each have a court date that they have to appear at. From that point on, they should hire an attorney to help make their case.

Now, a friend of mine at TKD had a scuffle with someone on his property one night. The guy swung at him, and my friend took him down and basically held him. Shortly thereafter, some cops showed up, and arrested the guy he was restraining. He was fortunate enough to be in a situation that allowed him to restrain the guy; this can't always happen. However, when the cops showed up, it was clear that he wasn't the aggressor, and he wasn't taking any shots at the downed attacker, either. So, the attacker got arrested, and my friend just made a statement for the cops.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30167
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gamedweeb wrote:
Very good point about being able to articulate what happened Bushido. There was another article I read on using the term "headlock" vs. "choke hold." If you tell an arriving officer that the assailant that he had you in a "headlock" and you beat the crap out of him to get away, chances are you'll end up in handcuffs. Whereas if you were to tell the officer that he put you into a "choke hold" then it implies impending loss of consciousness and possibly death.

I also like that "I was attempting to control the knife wielding hand of the attacker, and in the process of the struggle, he injured his hand."


It is all about articulation.

dineshm wrote:
Dont talk until your lawyer gets there.


I see this scenario almost every night. What happens is the officer stops the questioning process, and then the person arrested is charged. He then has to bond out of jail that night.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

gamedweeb
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 68

Styles: Bobby Lawrence Karate (Kwon Shu)

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a cop put it to me: "We can play the game too."
_________________
"I'd rather have 10 techniques that work for me than 100 techniques that work against me." -Ed Parker
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30167
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gamedweeb wrote:
As a cop put it to me: "We can play the game too."


Hehe, I think I know what you are saying here, but how did this come about, if you don't mind me asking?
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

NewEnglands_KyoSa
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 907
Location: New England
Styles: Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do , Chinese Kempo

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is how its spelled out in our manual along with the blurb at the bottom. our master instructor is adamant about this, considering he, himself is the towns detective...hope this helps, and hope it pastes out right...


Threat Level Response

Threat Level One Defense Technique One --- Demonstrate Confidence

Threat Level Two --- Frighten you Defense Technique Two --- Demonstrate Superiority

Threat Level Three --- Cause you pain Defense Technique Three --- Subdue aggressor

Threat Level Four --- Cause you serious injury Defense Technique Four --- Cause aggressor severe pain

Threat Level Five --- Kill you Defense Technique Five --- Cause unconsciousness (cause death only in the most severe situations)


The basic purpose of any form of Self Defense is to perform a Direct Defense Technique that meets but does not exceed your opponent's Threat Level. Evaluating the threat level that is being presented by an aggressor is critical to your ability to create the proper response. If the aggressor’s Threat Level is to embarrass you, use a Defense Technique that demonstrates confidence. It is important not to apply a more forceful response than is necessary for the situation.

If your opponent should increase the Threat Level to the highest degree by trying to kill you, you may have to use a Defense Technique that is equal to or stronger than the aggressors to protect your life. Defense Techniques that cause severe pain or unconsciousness will subdue the aggressor and allow you the chance to escape.

Consider the seriousness of the damage you can render as a student of the martial arts. Never deliver more force than necessary. Excessive force or brutality on your part can result in serious emotional/legal/financial problems in your life. Consider this as you learn how to defend yourself.
_________________
"Smile. Show everyone that today you're stronger than you were yesterday."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30167
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that if a person is attempting to kill you, then you have to meet force with force. I believe that most Use of Force ladders advocate this as well.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

ShoriKid
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 900

Styles: Matsubyashi-Ryu, Okinawan Kempo, wrestling, bits of BJJ

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Self Defense lawws vary by state and are changing all the time. Some states have a mandintory retreat clause. Basically, you have to try to get away and be cornered before you have the right to use force to defend yourself.
When asked by an officer, always make it clear, without going over board and seeming scripted, that you felt threatened or that your were in physical danger. Mention that you were afraid or scared. Don't play tough. If you were afraid they were going to hurt someone with you, make sure they know that.

In the case where the instructor got in trouble for breaking the guys hand, he shouldn't have mentioned it when speaking. Don't say, "in order to disarm the knife, I had to break his hand". Or even, "in the process of disarming him, I broke his hand.", it can still sound like it was on purpose. Just focus on the knife and the danger it presented. That your focus was 100% there. "Sir/Ma'am, I was trying to defend myself. All I wanted to do was get the knife away from him and not get killed." That just sound a lot better to people listening on joury duty. Your just a guy, afraid of a very sharp, deadly knife. Your not a trained expert in self defense and unarmed combat. You want to be Jim Carey on the stand in their eyes. No Chuck Norris or Bruce Lee.
_________________
Kisshu fushin, Oni te hotoke kokoro. A demon's hand, a saint's heart. -- Osensei Shoshin Nagamine
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

CloudDragon
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 579
Location: Missouri, USA
Styles: Karate, Jujitsu, Kenpo, Taekwondo, Kendo

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would try to get on the Lexis/Nexis database, it has a case law section that is incredible, and pretty easy to search. The next option would be to find a reference librarian, paralegal or lawyer who would be willing to help you search through a law library. It's not hard to learn, but something that you will need help to start.
_________________
A Black Belt is just a white belt that don't know when to quit!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> General Martial Arts Discussion All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - DMCA - Staff - User Guidelines >