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Evil Dave
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Posts: 173
Location: Victoria, BC
Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't have to see the movie, I've got tourists!
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Groinstrike
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 923
Location: Richland County
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Krav Maga, Jeet Kune Do, BJJ M

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems to me that many people fall into somewhat of a grey area when it comes to this classification. There is a big difference between being capable of violence and being willing to commit violence. Im really not sure which of these categories i belong to.

If the question is: Am i will in commit acts of brutal violence to protect my loved ones, then the answer is yes. Now as an LEO i am being asked to possibly commit acts of violence to protect the safety and well being of perfect strangers. This is were the term "sheepdog" comes to light.

I assume the sheepdog doesn't like the sheep, hell he probably thinks they look just as tasty as the wolves do. But the sheepdog has been trained to carry out a task, and his training overrides his basic animal instincts.
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ShoriKid
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 900

Styles: Matsubyashi-Ryu, Okinawan Kempo, wrestling, bits of BJJ

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I assume the sheepdog doesn't like the sheep, hell he probably thinks they look just as tasty as the wolves do. But the sheepdog has been trained to carry out a task, and his training overrides his basic animal instincts.


No, not really. A sheepdog that looks at the sheep with contempt/as tasty won't last long. At some point that inner voice wins out and they try a bite of sheep. At which time the owner puts them down, ie. the bad cop is put through the criminal justice system just like any other criminal, sometimes facing harsher sentencing.

The sheepdog is at worst, neutral toward the sheep. They have a job and that job is protecting the sheep, that's their deepest instinct. In the fabric of their being they are protectors who are usually friends with the sheep even if they have to bark at them for their own good now and again.
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Groinstrike
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 923
Location: Richland County
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Krav Maga, Jeet Kune Do, BJJ M

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShoriKid wrote:
Quote:
I assume the sheepdog doesn't like the sheep, hell he probably thinks they look just as tasty as the wolves do. But the sheepdog has been trained to carry out a task, and his training overrides his basic animal instincts.


No, not really. A sheepdog that looks at the sheep with contempt/as tasty won't last long. At some point that inner voice wins out and they try a bite of sheep. At which time the owner puts them down, ie. the bad cop is put through the criminal justice system just like any other criminal, sometimes facing harsher sentencing.

The sheepdog is at worst, neutral toward the sheep. They have a job and that job is protecting the sheep, that's their deepest instinct. In the fabric of their being they are protectors who are usually friends with the sheep even if they have to bark at them for their own good now and again.


Well said.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16386
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice topic and I've enjoyed the reading...thanks for starting this thread.


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The BB of C
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 1264
Location: Orlando, Florida
Styles: Kuk Sool Won, Isshin-ryu, Capoeira, Brazillian Jiu Jutsu, Judo

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are some interesting points brought up here. But I feel we're missing one of the very likely possibilities. We've covered the martial artists who train to be sheepdog but become sheep. We've covered how the LEO's practice becoming sheepdog. But what happens when a martial artist or LEO becomes a wolf? I've been seeing it happen with increased frequency as of the last couple of years and wondering what to think or do about such an occasion keeps me up some nights.
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Harkon72
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 1875
Location: Wales
Styles: Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Ninpo.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose it's the law of the jungle, told and retold, before, now and for ever.
The defense of the inocent is an issue, but so is the responsibility of the strong to educate and guide the youth. The Wolves take care around the Sheepdogs, but many wear the Sheepdog collar themselves. Some choose to be Sheep, proclaiming their pacifism and apathy. I hope History doesn't repeat its self to thier demise.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30167
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know how often the sheepdogs become wolves, and I'm not saying it doesn't happen. What I am more inclined to believe is that those that appear to become wolves have always been wolves, but have been able to either hide their true side, or do a profession that allows their wolf side to come out in order to slake their thirst from time to time with no one the wiser. But, I think by and large that when something like that is seen, its one of those cases that its blown up to the point that makes it appear to happen at a greater percentage than it really does.
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Kuma
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 1092


PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the difference between the wolf and the sheepdog is, on the side of the sheepdog, compassion and a code of conduct. You've got to have a bit of the wolf in you but you also need to genuinely care about your sheep. And as a protector of the sheep you need a high standard to follow to rely on when your wolfish side starts barking.
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darksoul
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Posts: 548
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Styles: Shaolin Kempo

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuma wrote:
I think the difference between the wolf and the sheepdog is, on the side of the sheepdog, compassion and a code of conduct. You've got to have a bit of the wolf in you but you also need to genuinely care about your sheep. And as a protector of the sheep you need a high standard to follow to rely on when your wolfish side starts barking.


I agree with this.
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