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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14405
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:19 am    Post subject: Shhhh... Reply with quote

LLLEARNER has this jewel of a saying inside his signature...

Quote:
"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching


How's this work at a website like, for example, KarateForums.com, when the only means of communication here is through conversation, sorta like, the spoken written words??

Kind of like what I'm doing right now!!



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Spodo Komodo
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 291
Location: Derbyshire, UK
Styles: Wado Ryu, Shotokan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That applies to the Tao, something which is beyond words (although people like Lao Tzu gave it a good try), not to kicking someone in the face which is not entirely beyond words. The saying is often trotted out when someone wants to look like they really know something but they also know if they even start to explain it their lack of knowledge will be obvious so it doesn't always work, even for the Tao. To some extent it does apply to Martial Arts because you need to feel a technique to begin to develop it, no amount of words can convey the same thing that one really good performance can. Besides, as humans we learn our skills through social means, it stops us all having to make the same mistakes over and over again. If no-one ever figured out that certain techniques were harmful to the knees and publicised the findings we would all cripple ourselves eventually. So there you go, pick the bones out of that, your mileage may vary etc.
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the quote, if taken literally, is a load of twaddle.

I think either something has been lost in the many translations since the original. Or the meaning is more subtle and implied rather than literal. Or both.

I think it's a bit like the much more modern saying, you can talk the talk but can you walk the walk? As in, just saying it proves nothing, but saying it doesn't mean you can't do it. It just doesn't mean you can.

I'm also mindful of the young idiots that boast about how tough they are. They tend to not be tough at all, but the ones that have confidence have no need to boast. Perhaps that's the intended meaning or something along those lines.
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Higher Self
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 11 Mar 2018
Posts: 18
Location: Kansas
Styles: Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like anything, context is needed to evaluate meaning. I don't think quotes like that were ever intended to be absolute truths. Yet they are there to provide value or meaning to those wanting to receive it. I think the quote provides a great lesson of humility that many people could benefit from. With that said, the meaning comes from the receiver, not the giver of the information. It will resonate with some and not with others, and that is perfectly understandable. Thanks!
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Tempest
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 422
Location: Tulsa, OK
Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys...
Clearly it's because he remembers the first rule of fight club...
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think of it as not being boastful.

We can come together to discuss topics that help us improve our lives in some way, without being in each others face about how great we are in a boastful manner.

And like Tempest said, I remember the first rule of Fight Club.
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"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching

"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1723

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The quote is an expression of a quality often emphasized in East Asian cultures. It reflects the idea that those who are knowledgeable about something must not flaunt it or show off their abilities.

The best advice is always to listen and observe twice as much as one speaks. Those who brag, boast and are generally making a show of their abilities often are not as good as they think they are. Modesty is a good quality for an expert to have as it proves that person is realistic and has not been overwhelmed by their own success.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27760
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tempest wrote:
You guys...
Clearly it's because he remembers the first rule of fight club...


....and you just broke it!
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14405
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we don't post, KF fades away into the lowering sun without any fanfare whatsoever.

We know a thing or two about the MA, and in that, we express ourselves on a plethora of MA subjects, in which, we strike up a conversation via a post.

Those who know, and don't post accordingly on any given subject, usher in the demise of KF, or any forum on the internet. And of course, those who do know, and do post, are going to run into those who don't know.
Quote:

"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching

Again, just how does that work at a forum, that's on the internet, like KF?? Those of us who do know, don't flaunt, but only share with others for the sake of a meaningful conversation.



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Tempest
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 422
Location: Tulsa, OK
Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
Tempest wrote:
You guys...
Clearly it's because he remembers the first rule of fight club...


....and you just broke it!


Have you SEEN the number of times I have been admonished for not following rules around here?

Besides, the point of that rule is to break it.
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