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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29040
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:58 am    Post subject: Shindokan and TKD get together! Reply with quote

On 8/20/2011 and 8/21/2011, sensei8 and I were able to meet and work out together, exchanging ideas, techniques, and training methods. We had a really good time, and I know I learned a lot in the process.

On day one, I demonstrated some of our basic techniques that are part of our regular TKD classes, and how we generate power and move in general during class. Our stances, especially the front stances, are a bit longer than what Bob's stances were. The prep positions on some of the hand techniques we do in TKD were also longer. Bob's style was more compact, which I liked.

After some exchange with basic hand techniques, I learned my first Karate kata with Bob showing me Naifanchi (or is it Naihanchi?) kata. I also showed Bob our Poe Eun hyung, which is similar to Naifanchi in that it is done in a "back to the wall" sort of way. Bob showed me several other kata, but Naifanchi we spent more time on. We then moved on to doing some of the bunkai applications from this kata, which was an interesting experience for me. I know I was having some trouble catching on, and Bob was very patient with me here. Bob also showed me how some of the tuite worked in sparring, along with the blitz, and avoiding a blitz.

On day two, we started off with some Shindokan basics, and then did some TKD kicking basics. Discussion of working around physical limitations came up when discussing kicking, and we had a good exchange on what I call a "pre-pivot" set up when doing various kicks, which was a really good exchange on the pros and cons of each. I then showed Bob some of our white and orange belt TKD one-steps, and how I transition them into self-defense based scenarios. From here, Bob showed me some of how the Shindokan one-step process works, and we did some blocking drills with what I called "heavy hands" that Bob showed, and then worked into some tuite series, attempting a lock, countering, getting countered again, and so on. Really good stuff. Day 2 finished up by doing some kaki (pushing hands type) drills, and Bob really helped me along here in gaining an idea of how to use foot sweeps in facilitating some joint manipulations in different aspects.

These two days were a great exchange of information, and its cool that on-line forums are what allowed Bob and I to get together to do some training and talk one-on-one about the different aspects of the Martial Arts that our styles bring us. I think I was the big winner here, though, because Bob was able to teach me soooo much more than I was able to teach him, with him having so much more experience than me, but I hope that I was able to impart some knowledge that will be as beneficial to Bob as his was to me.

Overall, we had a great mini-seminar training session, and we have KarateForums.com (and BlackBeltMag.com, as we met there first), to thank for this meeting taking place.
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DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6431
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very cool. The power of the interwebs

Sounds like you guys got a lot done. So how do you say Shindokan compares to TKD Brian? Were there a lot of areas of similarity or were the styles very different?
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29040
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say the styles are very different. So much more use of hand techniques, and the tuite of the style really opened my eyes to how that stuff can be applied in sparring, and in self-defense.
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Montana
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 827
Location: Formerly Kalispell, Montana, now Spokane, WA
Styles: Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo & Kobudo

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never seen Shindokan before, but I suspect it's similar to Shorin Ryu in its philosopy and approach to the martial arts. Shorter stances, 50/50 hands/feet, lower kicks, tuite, etc.

Comments Sensei8?
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Student since January 1975---4th Dan, retired due to non-martial arts related injuries.
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ShoriKid
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 900

Styles: Matsubyashi-Ryu, Okinawan Kempo, wrestling, bits of BJJ

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I can say is that I'm jelious. I love getting together to exchange techniques and ideas with other martial artists.
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MasterPain
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 1949
Location: Parts Unknown
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Backyard Kali, Satsui no Hadou

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian, please expound upon the pre-pivot. I think I do it too, works great on all terrain and regardless of shoes.
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Patrick
KF Administrator

Joined: 01 May 2001
Posts: 28064
Location: Los Angeles, California

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome! It's so great that you had a chance to meet up. Thank you for sharing this.

Patrick
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tallgeese
KF VIP

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6862
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's really cool. Hopefully, more of this sort of thing gets to take place.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15511
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry everyone...I'm at our Hombu for the next two weeks doing a plethora of things, and my plate is as usual, quite full, and just as soon as I can, Sunday would be the earliest, I'll share in this thread/topic.

Thank you for your understandings.


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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15511
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Allow me this opportunity to express my observations from over those 2 fruitful days of training/exchanges. Brian's OP covered our 2 day training/exchange quite well; listing and noting over a plethora of events that we shared, not only as martial artists, but as friends. Hopefully, I can add something to his OP that will bring us both some honor.

First of all, while the floor is always of a mind to qualify and/or to disqualify said practitioners, whether we want it to or not. Inasmuch, I found Brian more than qualified as a martial artist across the board. As a 3rd Dan, Brian's knowledge was far greater than most 3rd Dan's that I've trained/exchanged with in the many years past. His TKD is pure and solid; he's fluidity, especially in his kicks, are unmeasurable. He threw the most amazing and powerful high roundhouse kick that I've seen, and I've seen a lot in my days.

More importantly to me was Brain's affable way while we trained/exchanged. He was that sponge; wanting to learn as much as he could, considering our limited time allotted to us over these 2 days. Brain never once displayed a demeanor of being a pretentious, puffed-up, and self-aggrandizing 3rd Dan, and I've experienced my share of those 3rd Dan types, that I usually encounter because of my rank...and I thank Brian for being so down to earth in his approach to everything when it came to training/exchanges and the like.

I can only hope that I presented Shindokan in a most honorable light, and in that, I also pray that I made my Dai-Soke proud of me across the board. My intent during these 2 days with Brain was not to show him that Shindokan was an all-that-and-a-bag-of-chips martial art, because it's not, but to hopefully show Brain that Shindokan can stand proud next to any martial art as an effective martial art.

I sincerely wish that we had much more time to train/exchange, and in that, I was only able to show Brain the smallest grain of Shindokan; the slightest of a glimpse at Shindokan. Nonetheless, with a glad heart, I'm quite sure that Brain and I covered a bit of information about TKD and Shindokan; I was very satisfied across the board!!

At every chance, I'd bring us back to Tuite because Tuite is the heart and soul of Shindokan. To appreciate Tuite, one must be willing to "feel" Tuite, and this means that one must be more than willing to be made more uncomfortable than one is use to. I twisted, I probed, I manipulated, and I threw Brain more than what he expected, and when I say one must "feel" Tuite, Brain did just that. Again, to Brian's credit, he never once complained outwardly...he wanted and expected, and in that, I pray that I provided an answer to every question about Shindokan that he's ever had.

In our Tuite sessions, I never once followed through with an exclamation of a finishing technique because, to me, that is for another time. Often, our students forget their questions, and they start concentrating on the answer: Tuite Finishes. To our Soke, the mindset of the finish within Tuite destroys how one arrived to the finish in the first place.

I'd have Brian as a student in a heartbeat because he questions everything for a reason, and in that, he deserves a definitive answer; his bushido heart is pure, and I already know that whatever it was that I was able to impart to him, he'll practice it until it becomes ingrained in himself, but never forgetting his TKD roots.

We learned from each other!! Any time that I'm able to train with martial artists outside of the Shindokan circle is a big win for me. I love each and every Shindokan practitioner without any reservation or ambiguity; I treasure and I need to constantly train with my fellow Shindokanists. On the same note, I must train with non-Shindokanists, my soul desires it so, and it must be quenched in such a way, that it keeps me grounded positively while I'm on my martial arts journey.

I thank you Brian for your friendship first and foremost. A lot has happened the past 2-3 years that has caused me to doubt myself as a person and as a martial artist. Even talking to you about my Dai-Soke was hard for me to hold back my tears in front of you because he is/was everything to me.

Brian and I both agreed to meet each year to train/exchange each others methodologies and ideologies as long as we can. After all, I'll be 54 this October and God willing, I'll be active and meaningful in those far, yet upcoming years as a martial artist, first, and as a human being, secondly.

Brian...I respectfully bow to you...both as my friend, and as a fellow martial artist!! I echo all of your sentiments and observations, and in closing, had it not been for KarateForums and [BlackBeltMag], we might've not ever meet to train and the like. Thank you Patrick for your vision as well as the venue in which we all have the privilege of participating in as members and martial artists.



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