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mushybees
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 16 Nov 2014
Posts: 199
Location: UK
Styles: Wado ryu

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We only use mats when working throws and takedowns and then only when there are under 18s present.

We train at 2 venues. One is a community centre with a nice sprung floor, the other venue has a tiled concrete floor which gets so cold in the winter it numbs the toes. They have nothing to do with the quality of the instruction.
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shortyafter
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Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 169

Styles: Kyokushinkai, Shotokan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys. Sorry, let me clarify, I did not mean to associate the absence of mats with poor quality of instruction. Two seperate issues. The concerns about poor quality were due to all the things I listed in OP and that we talked about before. Although OneKick that makes sense about trusting the leader and not necessarily the association literature. It also occurred to me that the leader has to be encouraging to draw newbies in, but that doesn’t preclude a bait and switch (seen this before). But again this may just be me being skeptical, at this point I don’t know.

As for the mats, I appreciate the insight. Both of y’all’s points are duly noted. The blisters thing was more of a personal aside. Honestly I don’t know if I got them from poor technique or just because I’m not used to that type of floor (probably a combo), feel free to opine on that, but at this point rubbing those suckers more is just going to keep me out of action longer.

Thanks guys.
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shortyafter wrote:
Hey guys. Sorry, let me clarify, I did not mean to associate the absence of mats with poor quality of instruction. Two seperate issues. The concerns about poor quality were due to all the things I listed in OP and that we talked about before. Although OneKick that makes sense about trusting the leader and not necessarily the association literature. It also occurred to me that the leader has to be encouraging to draw newbies in, but that doesn’t preclude a bait and switch (seen this before). But again this may just be me being skeptical, at this point I don’t know.

As for the mats, I appreciate the insight. Both of y’all’s points are duly noted. The blisters thing was more of a personal aside. Honestly I don’t know if I got them from poor technique or just because I’m not used to that type of floor (probably a combo), feel free to opine on that, but at this point rubbing those suckers more is just going to keep me out of action longer.

Thanks guys.


I think in this sort of situation, gut instinct is best. Gut instinct combined with astute vigilance.

I think I'd train with them as long as I was getting what I wanted in tens of skills. But I'd also frequently ask myself if my goals are really MY goals or the association goals. The two do not always align.
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shortyafter
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Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 169

Styles: Kyokushinkai, Shotokan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey OneKick. Yes, that’s good advice. In the short-term I could certainly pick up some technique but long term I don’t think our styles/philosophies/goals align. So I’m not sure if I’ll return next week but either way I’ll go with my gut, like you said. Anyway I’ll be back to my normal dojo in just a few weeks so yeah.

Thanks again for the insight.
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mushybees
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Joined: 16 Nov 2014
Posts: 199
Location: UK
Styles: Wado ryu

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shortyafter wrote:


As for the mats, I appreciate the insight. Both of y’all’s points are duly noted. The blisters thing was more of a personal aside. Honestly I don’t know if I got them from poor technique or just because I’m not used to that type of floor (probably a combo), feel free to opine on that, but at this point rubbing those suckers more is just going to keep me out of action longer.

Thanks guys.


When I started training I had blisters on my feet for a few weeks. After a short while they become conditioned. I stood lightly on a drawing pin last year, it penetrated the ball of the foot near the big toe by quite a bit and I didn't feel a thing. I won't be modelling hosiery any time soon but my feet are tough!
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shortyafter
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Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 169

Styles: Kyokushinkai, Shotokan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mushybees wrote:
shortyafter wrote:


As for the mats, I appreciate the insight. Both of y’all’s points are duly noted. The blisters thing was more of a personal aside. Honestly I don’t know if I got them from poor technique or just because I’m not used to that type of floor (probably a combo), feel free to opine on that, but at this point rubbing those suckers more is just going to keep me out of action longer.

Thanks guys.


When I started training I had blisters on my feet for a few weeks. After a short while they become conditioned. I stood lightly on a drawing pin last year, it penetrated the ball of the foot near the big toe by quite a bit and I didn't feel a thing. I won't be modelling hosiery any time soon but my feet are tough!

Good to know I'm not the only one. Ouch, tough feet!
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Chunmonchek
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Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 177

Styles: Goju

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mushybees wrote:
shortyafter wrote:


As for the mats, I appreciate the insight. Both of y’all’s points are duly noted. The blisters thing was more of a personal aside. Honestly I don’t know if I got them from poor technique or just because I’m not used to that type of floor (probably a combo), feel free to opine on that, but at this point rubbing those suckers more is just going to keep me out of action longer.

Thanks guys.


When I started training I had blisters on my feet for a few weeks. After a short while they become conditioned. I stood lightly on a drawing pin last year, it penetrated the ball of the foot near the big toe by quite a bit and I didn't feel a thing. I won't be modelling hosiery any time soon but my feet are tough!


Feet are a funny thing. I have a sewing needle lodged deep in one of my feet. Somehow it penetrated the sole of my foot, migrated upward and broke in half. But for the x-rays, I wouldn't have ever know it was there.
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G95champ
Black Belt
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Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 3116
Location: Gilbert WV, USA
Styles: Shotokan Karate (FSKA)

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The SKA shotokan guys I've worked with are very narrow in their stance. Being from a JKA background and niw FSKA we are much more square. I understand the SKA logic but IMO it's not as good in real life as it is in tournament point attacks. Nothing else negative I can say. That's not negative just a disagree,net in opinion.
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(General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory."
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shortyafter
Orange Belt
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Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 169

Styles: Kyokushinkai, Shotokan

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G95champ wrote:
The SKA shotokan guys I've worked with are very narrow in their stance. Being from a JKA background and niw FSKA we are much more square. I understand the SKA logic but IMO it's not as good in real life as it is in tournament point attacks. Nothing else negative I can say. That's not negative just a disagree,net in opinion.

Yes, I noticed that they seemed a bit narrow and more focused on tournament fighting than anything else. My experience with them is limited to one training session but it does line up with what you're saying. No hate here either though, they did give me some good tips, just wasn't for me. Thanks for sharing.
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Journyman74
White Belt
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Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Posts: 15

Styles: KARATE

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting... I know this is an old thread but I’d like to chime in...

Regarding how technique is performed, this Karateka from another forum said it best…

“SKA was one of the first styles of Karate brought to the US and turned into an official organization. It’s not expensive to practice as it is a non profit organization.The Founder, Tsutomu Ohshima was one of Funakoshi’s students and received a 5th degree blackbelt under Funakoshi, the highest degree given at the time, so that is the highest degree a person can get in SKA. It is a traditional form of Shotokan, emphasizing real life technique of self defense, (eye gouging, low kicks to the groin and knees, foot stomping, aiming for the throat, ect. Techniques are kept simple. Distance and timing are a main point of focus. It’s not very sporty and can gravitate to more mental and physical conditioning depending on the dojo.

Different aspects are emphasized depending on dojo and instructor. But basically the premise of the technique is less is more, and speed produces power, and speed is achieved through relaxation. Maximum power is ultimately produced by speed, alignment, and proper distribution of body weight. Stances are wide. Punches usually end at the pinnacle of a movement, basically when your front foot hits the floor. This is one difference when I look at katas and basics from JKA- that there tends to be a kind of wind-up resulting in a delayed punch. For instance, if you are stepping with a reverse punch, in JKA the foot lands and then the punch and rotation of the hips follows. In SKA the rotation of the hips tends to happen as you take the step, so a maximum combination of speed, hip rotation, and alignment with body weight happens at the point of impact, and at the point of impact the fist is tightened, lightly tensed “extended”- the only point where “muscle” is used. There is always an emphasis of no power in the shoulders.”

 

 

Now in response to the previous commenters regarding how SKA front punch (Oi Zuki) is taught and executed..

Funakoshi in his own book says “the hips spring forward to a full frontal position in a half-facing posture” (Funakoshi, Gichin. Karate-Do Kyohan. New York: Kodansha USA,1973.Print)

It can also be observed that in all publications of his books, photos of Funakoshi himself when he was in his younger days is in a Half-facing posture as well as you can clearly see both shoulders in an angled position with punching arm extended. Main point being it is not “squared” as per his instruction, that is likely a concept taught by the JKA and its off-shoots. I have to say, even having trained JKA myself initially, we were not taught to have squared upper body posture in front punch so Im not sure where that is coming from. 

 

SKA teaches and emphasizes the importance of “CONNECTION”- which is why you don’t usually see them hopping up and down during kumite (its not against the rules, just not encouraged).  Sabaki and “shifting” is taught but nothing that would make you vunerable to counters or attacks as as result of being in the mercy of gravity. Hands are also kept up with chin lower as opposed to the traditional sport method…Here is a good example…

This clip is of a tourney a few years back of a JKA stylist from Japan(left) vs a SKA fighter(right). The man from Japan (left) is also affiliated with Oshimas organization through university but due to sport Karate being implemented in Japanese university Karate syllabus, it looks almost identical to WKF style Kumite that his style resembles..   
Good fight between both, very talented men to say the least.
 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wmDAPNUtfgU

Special training is basically "gasshuku" (Japanese translation) and is practiced in martial arts. Various martial arts groups practice this

For me personally, in my years of Shotokan, SKA is the finest Shoto group ive had the pleasure to pratice with. Oshima was definitly on another level from what Ive observed compared to Funakoshis other students. Always thankful for his instruction and kindness


Last edited by Journyman74 on Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
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