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Shojiko
Orange Belt
Joined: 08 Oct 2014
Posts: 163
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 Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:59 am Post subject: |
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I coincidentally practice both methods and think both have their strong points. Long as it gets the job done partner!
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dennis63
White Belt
Joined: 27 Feb 2024
Posts: 13
Location: Delaware
Styles: Shotokan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Journyman74 wrote: |
Very interesting... I know this is an old thread but I’d like to chime in...
Regarding how technique is performed, this Karateka from another forum said it best…
“SKA was one of the first styles of Karate brought to the US and turned into an official organization. It’s not expensive to practice as it is a non profit organization.The Founder, Tsutomu Ohshima was one of Funakoshi’s students and received a 5th degree blackbelt under Funakoshi, the highest degree given at the time, so that is the highest degree a person can get in SKA. It is a traditional form of Shotokan, emphasizing real life technique of self defense, (eye gouging, low kicks to the groin and knees, foot stomping, aiming for the throat, ect. Techniques are kept simple. Distance and timing are a main point of focus. It’s not very sporty and can gravitate to more mental and physical conditioning depending on the dojo.
Different aspects are emphasized depending on dojo and instructor. But basically the premise of the technique is less is more, and speed produces power, and speed is achieved through relaxation. Maximum power is ultimately produced by speed, alignment, and proper distribution of body weight. Stances are wide. Punches usually end at the pinnacle of a movement, basically when your front foot hits the floor. This is one difference when I look at katas and basics from JKA- that there tends to be a kind of wind-up resulting in a delayed punch. For instance, if you are stepping with a reverse punch, in JKA the foot lands and then the punch and rotation of the hips follows. In SKA the rotation of the hips tends to happen as you take the step, so a maximum combination of speed, hip rotation, and alignment with body weight happens at the point of impact, and at the point of impact the fist is tightened, lightly tensed “extended”- the only point where “muscle” is used. There is always an emphasis of no power in the shoulders.”
Now in response to the previous commenters regarding how SKA front punch (Oi Zuki) is taught and executed..
Funakoshi in his own book says “the hips spring forward to a full frontal position in a half-facing posture” (Funakoshi, Gichin. Karate-Do Kyohan. New York: Kodansha USA,1973.Print)
It can also be observed that in all publications of his books, photos of Funakoshi himself when he was in his younger days is in a Half-facing posture as well as you can clearly see both shoulders in an angled position with punching arm extended. Main point being it is not “squared” as per his instruction, that is likely a concept taught by the JKA and its off-shoots. I have to say, even having trained JKA myself initially, we were not taught to have squared upper body posture in front punch so Im not sure where that is coming from.
SKA teaches and emphasizes the importance of “CONNECTION”- which is why you don’t usually see them hopping up and down during kumite (its not against the rules, just not encouraged). Sabaki and “shifting” is taught but nothing that would make you vunerable to counters or attacks as as result of being in the mercy of gravity. Hands are also kept up with chin lower as opposed to the traditional sport method…Here is a good example…
This clip is of a tourney a few years back of a JKA stylist from Japan(left) vs a SKA fighter(right). The man from Japan (left) is also affiliated with Oshimas organization through university but due to sport Karate being implemented in Japanese university Karate syllabus, it looks almost identical to WKF style Kumite that his style resembles..
Good fight between both, very talented men to say the least.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wmDAPNUtfgU
Special training is basically "gasshuku" (Japanese translation) and is practiced in martial arts. Various martial arts groups practice this
For me personally, in my years of Shotokan, SKA is the finest Shoto group ive had the pleasure to pratice with. Oshima was definitly on another level from what Ive observed compared to Funakoshis other students. Always thankful for his instruction and kindness |
Awesome response, Journyman74. All very accurate, I would say.
I would add that SKA's teaching is that "power" comes not so much from speed but from the application of kime -- relaxed and fast until the instant of impact, then tightening and connecting on impact. (Think: Light / heavy.) |
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dennis63
White Belt
Joined: 27 Feb 2024
Posts: 13
Location: Delaware
Styles: Shotokan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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I've practiced with Shotokan Karate of America since 1981. When I saw SKA's name as the title of this post, I had to read it. Some of the previous posts are excellent, while others are a bit incorrect or are viewing SKA in the most negative possible way.
SKA's members -- there are fewer than 2,000 in the United States these days -- practice a very traditional style of Japanese karate and strive to keep it as close to the way Gichin Funakoshi taught in the early 20th Century.
The idea of "Special Training" existed and exists in several Japanese martial arts. The idea is for the student to challenge himself / herself. It recognizes that some big breakthroughs in your practice can happen when you push harder for longer than you previously thought possible. When you've done lots of a technique or a kata, or face people you've never met before in kumite, or are exhausted and still have to fight on, you make breakthroughs. You also realize you were being pretty easy on yourself, and you can do more than you thought you could. That's the idea!
So, yes, they have this rule. You can't leave or they'll kick you out of SKA. (That's handed down directly from Japan. too. It's VERY Japanese.). But you know that going in, so you know you're staying for three or four days and doing maybe eight practices, each of which will be somewhat difficult. They will be as hard as you decide to make them by pushing yourself.
And you actually can leave Special Training without getting kicked out of SKA if you are sick, injured or have a true family emergency. I've seen it a few times in my 23 Special Trainings. Usually, the people who have to leave don't want to leave. They'd prefer to stay and finish what they set out to do.
Hinting that it has similarities to a "cult" is almost funny, were it not implied seriously. SKA is non-profit and costs are low. They don't want your money. They say, "You can be good at this if you work hard," and recognize rank based on ability and character, not how much you've paid in fees.
So if working out hard to get better at an activity is a cult, then every high school sports team in every town would qualify as a cult.
I get that these days, MMA, BJJ and a few popular styles are all the rage. There are also those who've practices different arts and may be trying to steer people to themselves, and away from traditional martial arts by using descriptions like "outdated,' or "ineffective."
I was a police officer for 25 years, and met many people who chose to fight rather than be arrested. Criminals in alleys and tiny apartments and on the side of roads. Two had knives and one tried to take my gun. And because I carried that (loaded) gun as part of my uniform, if I lost, it meant I would probably die.
But I'm still here. I'm (living) proof the techniques work very effectively, and I am only a humble nidan. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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