Shotokan karate

ZakariRu · Orange Belt

shotokan has no throws??!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

WTF!

Tekki shodan, nidan, and sandan??
Gojushihosho and dai.

Heian shodan even has a huge take down in it....

Actually when i think about it there is a throw in almost ever single kata.....

Shotokan has alot of throws and takedowns.

ZakariRu · Orange Belt

and there were two styles of karate around before funakoshi went to japan. Goju and shorin. O-Sensei was also the first person to take karate to japan.

G95champ · Black Belt

I got Funakoshi's books on the shelf above me and I can show you pages of throws. Shotokan has tons of them. In face befroe WWII it had a lot more. Shotokan was VERY close to Judo. Howver because the Japanese militray wanted a fighting sytem to teach the troops many of the throws were taken out and hidden in kata.

_________________
(General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory."

Taikudo-ka · Green Belt

I'll quote Funakoshi directly, from memory here - "Throws and locks were practised in my day, and I recommend you practise them as well", or something along those lines.

Take a look at Karate-Do Kyohan. The contents can be seen at:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0870111906/reader/4/002-9311003-5640822#reader-link

Look under section 5 in the contents - "Throwing Techniques"...

You can't get much more "Shotokan" than Funakoshi himself. Anyway, as far as throws in kata, Zakiru is right. Just about any move can become a throw if applied right, the basic lower block combined with a step or turn, for example.

As for its popularity,

-: is right, I think it's mainly because Funakoshi worked his butt off to make it so. However, he wasn't the first in Japan. Choki Motobu went there before him, but was never as successul there as a teacher.

As far as stance height, I took a Goju class, and then signed up for the style. The stances are much higher than Shotokan, and tend to utilize small, circular steps. Only the "Shiko Dachi" (Sumo/Horse/Straddle stance) is really low. I can't think of any pictures I've seen where a Goju man is "out-lowering" a Shotokan man.

BTW, what do you Shotokan guys use sanchin/hourglass stance for, seeing as you don't do sanchin kata? I initially thought this stance a defining characteristic of Naha-te style, but I've seen it crop up in enough Shotokan references to know otherwise. Just wondering how it got there? Do you have another kata that uses it?

G95champ · Black Belt

The Kata Hangetsu uses that stance.

I assume you are talking about the stance with your knees and upper legs together. You step in a half-moon shape. I have saw this refered to as an hourglass stance. I think that is our version of what you are refering to.

Funakoshi includes that kata in Karate-Do Kyohan. So check it out and see if we are talking about the same thing.

_________________
(General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory."

Taikudo-ka · Green Belt

Yes, it is the same stance.

I read up about Hangetsu here:
http://www.24fightingchickens.com/shotokan/kata/hangetsu.html

Ah Ha. If it IS a southern Chinese form that made its way into Shuri-te, that explains why it's in Shotokan. Naha-te took even more forms from the same southern Chinese styles, hence the greater prevalence of hourglass stance.

ZakariRu · Orange Belt

negative

negative negative

choki wasnt first.
And we use sanchin in hyakuhachiho and nijushiho.

Hangetsu and sanchin are different

Kensai · Black Belt

ZakariRu , I can see that your refer to Funakoshi as O Sensei. This is not his title. He is Sensei. He was never called O sensei by anybody. O Sensei, is commonly the title given to Morihei Ueshiba (creator of Aikido).

Sorry about the throws comment. I am wrong. Just looked some up.

But throws in Shotokan, or atleast at the club I used to train at, and I was taught by Sensei Ohta, that was trained by Sensei Enoeda 8th Dan, were not taught so to speak.

Are they in more of a Bunkai subject?

I also have Sensei Nakayama's book and there are no mention of throws even in the techniques section which is pretty huge. Thats not to say that there are'nt any.

Any links on Karate throws would be very mush appreciated. (of any style)

ZakariRu · Orange Belt

lol.
O-Sensei is a merely a title for the founder of a style.
have you ever studied japanese?

there are several throws in karatedo kyohan and the best karate series. Ill check dynamic karate (nakayamas big boook) and get back to you.

Tobias_Reece · Brown Belt

From what I have heard from many different instructors etc. is that Nakayama's books are very (quote unquote) simple in terms of bunkai - the fact that they don't show many throws, locks etc.

But then again, some people may think striking is enough.

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Principal Kobudo Instructor & Owner
West Yorkshire Kobudo Academy
2nd Kyu (Matayoshi Okinawan Kobudo, IOKA UK)

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