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Sideburns
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 30 Jul 2011
Posts: 12

Styles: TKD, Shotokan karate, and dabbled in Aikido and Judo

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The stepping in front of the kicking leg was the way this kick was taught at this particular Shotokan school. I also encountered it in a Shotokan book I bought right after I began taking classes at this school. Not having any previous experience in Shotokan prior to this, I just assumed that was the case for Shotokan in general. I don't know for sure. Perhaps someone more versed in Shotokan can eloborate.

In any rate, it hindered me greatly so I ignored it and performed the side kick by stepping behind the kicking leg. I never used the horse stance outside of kata. During sparring, I preferred a more natural upright stance to perform the kick.
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brickshooter
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 443


PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO, the TKD side kick delivers more power as it allows the kick to be delivered like a back kick. But the problem with the TKD side kick is that it leaves you very vulnerable if it fails since you're now with your back to the attacker. Your shoulders are completely turned, leaving you with a single arm to defend. In addition, you sciatic nerve (back of your leg) is completely exposed to a low kick counter both before and after the kick.

With the Shotokan side kick, you shoulders are still relatively squared versus your attacker. So if it fails, you're in a better position to follow up with a punch or block with either hand. And it's also a deceptive kick that could look like either a lead leg front kick or round kick. However, it is a more difficult kick to master since one must use the "flick" of the hips to generate any power in this kick. You really need to have flexible and strong hips to do this kick well.


BTW if anyone wants to know what a TKD side kick looks like, look up Joe Lewis on Youtube. While not a TKD guy, how Lewis kicks is how TKD side kicks are taught. With the alignment of the body, enormous power can be generated. Breaking ribs is pretty easily done.
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Rateh
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 848
Location: USA
Styles: WTF Taekwondo

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly, the WTF form Koryo (a taekwondo form), uses two step in FRONT side kicks.
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DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6431
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brickshooter wrote:
IMO, the TKD side kick delivers more power as it allows the kick to be delivered like a back kick. But the problem with the TKD side kick is that it leaves you very vulnerable if it fails since you're now with your back to the attacker. Your shoulders are completely turned, leaving you with a single arm to defend. In addition, you sciatic nerve (back of your leg) is completely exposed to a low kick counter both before and after the kick.

Respectfully, this isn't true for ITF TKD (I've never trained WTF, so wouldn't know). But for ITF, to do what you're describing is wrong. Its over turning and isn't technically correct. You could turn a bit further like a backkick to generate power but this isn't totally correct and is considered wrong because of the reasons you mentioned. You're unnecessarily turning away and losing sight of your target.
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honoluludesktop
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 233

Styles: Japanese Karate

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The application of any technique in free sparring, is circumstantial, and in response to a situation. Kihon, and kata are basic and basic variations that must be adjusted for fighting. Each styles basic form, affects the body in different ways, and no way is right or wrong, only different.

In the late 60s, all TKD fighters could yokogeri very high, very few karateka could. It was probably because of kihon training. In those days, TKD was weak in maegeri. Again probably because of kihon.

There is no best way, each style has its good and bad points. In open karate competitions that I have watched, very few TKD persons were able to beat a karateka. While I havn't been to any open TKD matches, I'm sure that karateka would have problems winning.


Last edited by honoluludesktop on Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jay
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 1190


PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In shotokan I was taught both. I prefered the behind the leg version but I learn't both.

Interestingly now I do mine the JKD way which I believe came from Jhoon Rhee who was a TKD guy.
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todome
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 22 Apr 2009
Posts: 159
Location: Winnipeg
Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's shotokan and it's not a mistake. There's nothing wrong with crossing in front if it's done properly. With the supporting leg bent there's plenty of room for a supinated foot to pass. DONE PROPERLY it provides a straight line to the target.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15511
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For anything...In Shindokan we're taught to have our kicking foot cross behind our supporting leg's foot when executing this kick, as well as bringing both feet together prior to same said kick. I've tried it opposite, but, it feels wrong/strange to me.



EDITS: I original typed, in this post/thread "IN FRONT" of our supporting leg's foot. THAT WAS A TYPO; My mind thought BEHIND, but my fingers typed IN FRONT. Sorry for this misunderstanding!!
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Last edited by sensei8 on Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:29 pm; edited 2 times in total
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todome
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 22 Apr 2009
Posts: 159
Location: Winnipeg
Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
For anything...In Shindokan we're taught to have our kicking foot cross in front of our supporting leg's foot when executing this kick, as well as bringing both feet together prior to same said kick. I've tried it opposite, but, it feels wrong/strange to me.



more like a heel kick?
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brickshooter
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 443


PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting enough, I neither step in front nor back during kumite. In a seminar, I had an Isshin Ryu instrutor who taught me to slide. So I've slid ever since. Even nowadays during kihon training, I end up sliding after the step in front.

(Don't ask me where an Isshin Ryu instructor learned to do a sliding side kick.)
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