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ramcalgary
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 09 Dec 2001
Posts: 347
Location: Calgary Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2002 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you think? A student in one of my classes recently told me that he has HIV.
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Bon
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 10 Aug 2001
Posts: 1047
Location: Australia
Styles: BJJ, Kickboxing

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2002 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

::edit::
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It takes sacrifice to be the best.

There are always two choices, two paths to take. One is easy. And its only reward is that it's easy.


Last edited by Bon on Sun Sep 29, 2002 1:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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SBN Doug
KF VIP

Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 3767
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Kuk Sool Won

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2002 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. The same issue could be brought up in many work environments. However, we can't just run around testing everyone because there is a chance they might open a cut.

It should be up to the school owner to have himself, and any other instructors that might render first aid, trained to protect themselves from any blood born pathogens. And then a policy of no open woulds allowed to continue training would protect the other students.

That's my take anyway.
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KickChick
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 02 Aug 2001
Posts: 3282


PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2002 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couplle of years ago there was a highly publicized case here in the Northeast USA involving a 12 yr old boy who had HIV and USA Bushidokan who refused to train the boy because he was a "direct threat" to other students in training. The case involved whether or not this boy was being discriminated against, being protected by the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act). HIV is an example of a physical impairment under the ADA.
To read full details (I hate to read lengthy posts verbatim) ... go to http://classweb.gmu.edu/jkozlows/2000NOV.htm
Read the particulars of "COMBAT KARATE CLASS ILLUSTRATES ADA "DIRECT THREAT" EXCEPTION" the case of Montalvo vs. Radcliff ... and then let's see your views.
I am opposed of motifying the training program for all because of one individual. I do agree on private instruction in this case. As far as testing for HIV ... precautionary measures should always be in place ... but if a known individual is tested positive solely on their own and has supplied that info to the instructor ... he should investigate the legal implications of his actions.

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myosim
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 31 Jan 2002
Posts: 6


PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2002 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This actually happened near my neck of the woods and it ticked me off beyond belief for a number of reasons.

1) The teacher offered private lessons. Not mentioned in that site is that he offered them at the same rate as group classes. I personally feel that the instructor went above and beyond to accomodate this child.

2) The parents lied on the application. That in itself should be grounds to reject him once it is found out. They placed the school and instructor in a dangerous legal position without letting him know.

3) People aside from MA instructors determining who is fit to take a class. The treating physician signed off on this without actually finding out what class entailed.(I recently had a student pass out on the first day of class after standing in learning to make a fist and standing in a horse stance for all of 5 min. and even that 5 min was not continuous. Apparently she is prone to blackouts and in high school a doctor told her it was 'no big deal' so she feels she is fit to participate in MA including sparring.)

4) I have seen students bleed all over one another including one instance where a punch to the mouth cut the puncher's knuckles. Any disease come of it? No. but I certainly think that there is a risk(insignificant maybe but still there) And knowing how parents feel about their kids demanding that this kid be in the general class could have seriously hurt his business.

I don't think testing should be mandatory. But the other participants in the class have a right to know if a student is HIV positive. I have no problem working out with HIV-pos individuals or teaching them but I would offer private lessons as did this instructor. It's a risk I can assume for myself, not others.
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Phantasmatic
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 21 Dec 2001
Posts: 586
Location: Dunlap, Illinois
Styles: Goju-Ryu, Shorei-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Kobudo, Judo, Shin-Kage Ryu

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2002 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't think that getting an HIV test would be neccesary for the martial arts unless you know that you might bleed. Then definetly I would get one.

By the way, welcome to Karateforums.com myosim!

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TKD_McGee
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 02 Oct 2001
Posts: 594
Location: Washington

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2002 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that HIV/AIDS people should not be allowed to train. This could be a potential huge health hazard. When it comes sparring time, or if an accident happens people are always scared of blood. Blood can carry some nasty diseases.

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KickChick
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 02 Aug 2001
Posts: 3282


PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2002 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to KarateForums myosim .... is this a similar case or THE case? I was trying to find what came of this whole situation and whether it was in fact resolved. This can become an increasingly more prevalent situation in these times. Curious to see if anyone else has had similar situations occur in their dojo.
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Joecooke007
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 24 Nov 2001
Posts: 720


PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2002 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that the student should not be allowed to spar if they have aids. If there was an accident and blood was drawn there could be serious consequences.

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myosim
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 31 Jan 2002
Posts: 6


PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2002 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

not actually new here but my pw doesn't seem to work and I have changed emails so can't get my old user id myosimka to work. But thanks

That is the case in question. The resolution was that the court found that the instructor had made a reasonable decision within the direct threat exception. He also had made a good faith effort to provide training. So the court ruled in favor of the instructor. Yeah!! Just sucks that he had to defend himself against this suit.


TKD_McGee-shouldn't be allowed to train??? That attitude is the reason that this suit was filed. The parents went too far but they have to contend with that sort of thing regularly. Other people need to be made aware of the risk but to ban people from training?? Prevent them from sparring-ok. but ban them from training? And where do you draw the line then?

Can they be chefs? Cut hair? Yes, there are limits but ban them from training? Compromise dude. Private training and invite other people to attend these smaller sessions with more direct instruction with the caveat that there is an HIV pos student.
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