Should blackbelts be withheld until a certain age?

karatefox · Yellow Belt

some dojos won't allow even a skilled person under sixteen to get their blackbelt until they are sixteen. Should age affect it?
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hm.........interesting....

karate_woman · Pre-Black Belt

The Butokukai is one such organization; I used to be a member, and the logic was explained that "dan" meant "man", and the Japanese felt that you were a man at 16 therefore the rank was withheld until that point. It is one way to prevent seeing a 7 year old with a black belt, that's for sure!

The one negative thing I found was my Sensei's own son, who'd started training at about 3 years of age and while he didn't advance quickly, since there was really no point, was a very competent brown belt by the age of 12. The organization didn't believe in junior black belt ranks (at least we were told it didn't at our school, anyway), and so at 13, he started getting penalized at tournaments and was told he was in fact a junior black belt when he couldn't by rights wear the rank of black belt for another 3 years

. I think he eventually quit.
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WC-Strayder · Orange Belt

Yes, for sure, at least 16 years old for a black belt!!. It scared me when I read that a 5 year old boy got his black belt in TKD, coz just look at it!. A 5 year old with a black belt?. Wow, he is good for sure, don't you think?. With years and years of practice and a great understanding of TKD, he really deserved the belt, right??. What a joke!!!.

Mcdojo is what that is!. And I wonder why none really respect TKD anymore, don't you too??.

Or is a black belt underage, so to speak, just a junior black belt, so this boy later gonna take a sort of "froun up, adult" belt later?.

He gonna be grand master-master-master of 100 dan when he is about 40 then, with a belt blacker than black??.

No, you have at least be 16 years of age to get it, or else the belt looses it's meaning!.

Believe it or not, the little boy really has a black belt in TKD!!. Really cool, don't you think! ;D ;D ;D
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WC-Strayder · Orange Belt

boy later gonna take a sort of "froun up, adult" belt ..... that would be groun ut, not froun up....
Sorry
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ninjanurse · KF VIP

No, I don't think it is cool, not in any way!!!

What a diservice to martial arts as a whole to downgrade the rank of black belt by allowing a 5 year old to hold the rank.

Sixteen is appropriate to hold the full rank because of the aspects of maturity and responsibility involved. Under 16, a JR rank could be allowed provided the kid fullfills ALL the requirements.
Don't get me started on schools that bastardize the art to satisfy a society that wants more and more but doesn't want to work for it!

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Dragon · Yellow Belt

Im lucky. Im 13 and was given my blackbelt.
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monkeygirl · KF VIP

I received my blackbelt about 6 months before my 16th birthday. So technically, by some dojo's rules, I shouldn't have had it yet

I am definitely against 7 year old blackbelts. I agree that they don't have the emotional or physical maturity to hold a full blackbelt, and a 7-year-old should only be a junior blackbelt, just to make the distinction. However, what do you do for a talented kid who started MA at 7 years old? Say it takes about 3 or 4 years for him to advance through the kyu/gup ranks...that means he'll be a 10 or 11-year-old black belt. So, he could be given a junior blackbelt. Fair enough. But are you going to ask a kid to remain as a junior blackbelt for 5 or 6 years, just so they can turn 16? And then from there, you'll give them a full "adult" 1st dan, which means they'll learn the same old stuff they've BEEN learning as a junior blackbelt for 6 years already. But since they just got 1st dan, they have to wait a few more years until they're ready for 2nd dan, when they can finally learn something new.
I don't know about you guys, but my dojo doesn't have that much material for black belts. Spending 8 or 9 years learning the same things over and over again will get pretty boring. I know that will raise the topic "Then they obviously don't have the emotional maturity." But would you ask an adult to put their training basically on hold for 9 years?

Like I said, I'm against 7-year-old BBs. But there has to be a better way to hold them off. A way to keep them interested and learning until they're old enough. Most systems make it unfair for young students. They either become brown belts at age 10 and are told to wait for 6 years 'til they can be promoted, or they are undeservingly given a belt.
I'm not saying that a deserving 10-year-old doesn't exist, but generally speaking, most aren't ready.
Still, there has to be a better way

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karate_woman · Pre-Black Belt

Well, they didn't used to have ranks at all.

And it is interesting to note that Miyagi Chojun, founder of Goju wouldn't have reached 10th Dan by Butokukai's current standards until 70, and he unfortunately passed away before then. Now he was given both a Kyoshi and a Renshi rank by the Butokukai, and much recognition, including having his style formally recognized, so I'm being facetious, but hopefully you get my point. Goju didn't even have a ranking system until after his death.

I'm torn...I don't like the 7 year old BB idea but also think something has been lost in our efforts to legitimize our ranks. I'm at a loss for a solution other than don't put as much weight on the rank itself and pay more attention to what its wearer does.
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karatekid1975 · KF VIP

Well, the two TKD dojangs I trained at have age limits. You have to be 16 to get a real black belt. If you are under that age, you get a junior black belt. If a kid reaches 16 and already holds a junior black belt, he/she must re-learn the adult requirements, and re-test for the real thing.
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chuck_girl · Yellow Belt

I think a black belt is an emotional statement and commitment. I don't think even a child prodigy 5 year old black belt with the most prodigious talent, would be that much use in a street fight. C'mon, he'd be like, 3 feet tall.

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