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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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 Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
Yup. Watch before you join in on it. What if they go through the warmups, basics and some drills, and everything is all fine and good, it then comes the sparring and you’re expected to spar bare knuckle when you didn’t know this was how they do things nor wanted a bare knuckle school?
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What? Does that ever happen? I've never heard of or witnessed a beginner being expected to spar before they're ready. Never.
That's not to say it doesn't happen. I've never known it or heard of it.
Is that something that happens in the US?
Quite apart from it being morally wrong to ask a new starter to spare before they're ready, it would also be dangerous not just for the new starter, but for the other students. What if the new kid is both completely mental and extremely tough? Are there really instructors out there that would take that risk before getting to know and trust the new starter?
Then there's the civil liability. The new person is effectively a guest. Are are there any insurance companies out there that are happy to cover clubs that throw visitors to the wolves? |
Unfortunately it still happens, but hopefully very, very rarely. That was the norm when my former and current teacher started. It wasn’t the norm, it it was still around when I first started in ‘94. I sparred my first night. Both of them shake their heads and say “yeah, we don’t do that anymore.” Too many hard lessons learned.
It’s an extreme example, and highly unlikely the OP will be subjected to it. In fact, I really hesitated to mention it at all. My main point was to watch and see what’s going on before jumping in. What if he works out with them, then realizes they’re a bare knuckle/full contact school? Even if he’s not allowed to spar that night or until he’s genuinely ready, what if he wants no part of that type of sparring? He’s spent the night working out in a dojo he’ll never join. What if he starts working out with them, then they break out into a chi ball no-touch knockout session? There’s an hour of his life he’ll never get back.
Another extreme example. My main realistic point is watch what’s going on before you get on the floor. |
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jasonis
White Belt
Joined: 06 Mar 2018
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| JR 137 wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
Yup. Watch before you join in on it. What if they go through the warmups, basics and some drills, and everything is all fine and good, it then comes the sparring and you’re expected to spar bare knuckle when you didn’t know this was how they do things nor wanted a bare knuckle school?
. |
What? Does that ever happen? I've never heard of or witnessed a beginner being expected to spar before they're ready. Never.
That's not to say it doesn't happen. I've never known it or heard of it.
Is that something that happens in the US?
Quite apart from it being morally wrong to ask a new starter to spare before they're ready, it would also be dangerous not just for the new starter, but for the other students. What if the new kid is both completely mental and extremely tough? Are there really instructors out there that would take that risk before getting to know and trust the new starter?
Then there's the civil liability. The new person is effectively a guest. Are are there any insurance companies out there that are happy to cover clubs that throw visitors to the wolves? |
Unfortunately it still happens, but hopefully very, very rarely. That was the norm when my former and current teacher started. It wasn’t the norm, it it was still around when I first started in ‘94. I sparred my first night. Both of them shake their heads and say “yeah, we don’t do that anymore.” Too many hard lessons learned.
It’s an extreme example, and highly unlikely the OP will be subjected to it. In fact, I really hesitated to mention it at all. My main point was to watch and see what’s going on before jumping in. What if he works out with them, then realizes they’re a bare knuckle/full contact school? Even if he’s not allowed to spar that night or until he’s genuinely ready, what if he wants no part of that type of sparring? He’s spent the night working out in a dojo he’ll never join. What if he starts working out with them, then they break out into a chi ball no-touch knockout session? There’s an hour of his life he’ll never get back.
Another extreme example. My main realistic point is watch what’s going on before you get on the floor. |
Haha, I am pretty much up for most things, bare knuckle would not bother me at all, a chi ball no knockout session might be a huge turn off though! xD It's described as "Shotokai" which i think is the same as shotokan? I am going Friday and i wondered whether or not i should research about the art some more first? the only experience i have of karate is seeing lyot machida and wonderboy in the ufc also a lot of videos posted to social media platforms the reason i chose karate is because it looks like an awesome style, i'd say possibly the best defensively and in terms of counter attacking, I hope i'd never have to use it and i doubt i ever will but yeah those are my reasons.  |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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There’s no best style, only best styles for individuals. I believe Shotokai is a Shotokan substyle or offshoot. Either way, meet the teacher and students and see if it’s the right place for you.
Another way to look at it...
Let’s say Shotokai is undesputably the best MA style out there. What if regardless of that, the teacher was awful and the students were all Power Ranger and Ninja Turtle wannabe kids, and they had a dojo clown that came out to confetti and music every hour. Now assuming that’s the opposite of what you’re looking for, do you think you’re going to get the most out of your time there? Wouldn’t an “inferior” art being taught by a great teacher and a dojo full of adults who work their butts off be a better use of your time?
Unless it’s some crazy art that’s completely built on idiocy, the style is far less important than who’s teaching it, how it’s being taught, and who’s training with you. |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| jasonis wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
Yup. Watch before you join in on it. What if they go through the warmups, basics and some drills, and everything is all fine and good, it then comes the sparring and you’re expected to spar bare knuckle when you didn’t know this was how they do things nor wanted a bare knuckle school?
. |
What? Does that ever happen? I've never heard of or witnessed a beginner being expected to spar before they're ready. Never.
That's not to say it doesn't happen. I've never known it or heard of it.
Is that something that happens in the US?
Quite apart from it being morally wrong to ask a new starter to spare before they're ready, it would also be dangerous not just for the new starter, but for the other students. What if the new kid is both completely mental and extremely tough? Are there really instructors out there that would take that risk before getting to know and trust the new starter?
Then there's the civil liability. The new person is effectively a guest. Are are there any insurance companies out there that are happy to cover clubs that throw visitors to the wolves? |
Unfortunately it still happens, but hopefully very, very rarely. That was the norm when my former and current teacher started. It wasn’t the norm, it it was still around when I first started in ‘94. I sparred my first night. Both of them shake their heads and say “yeah, we don’t do that anymore.” Too many hard lessons learned.
It’s an extreme example, and highly unlikely the OP will be subjected to it. In fact, I really hesitated to mention it at all. My main point was to watch and see what’s going on before jumping in. What if he works out with them, then realizes they’re a bare knuckle/full contact school? Even if he’s not allowed to spar that night or until he’s genuinely ready, what if he wants no part of that type of sparring? He’s spent the night working out in a dojo he’ll never join. What if he starts working out with them, then they break out into a chi ball no-touch knockout session? There’s an hour of his life he’ll never get back.
Another extreme example. My main realistic point is watch what’s going on before you get on the floor. |
Haha, I am pretty much up for most things, bare knuckle would not bother me at all, a chi ball no knockout session might be a huge turn off though! xD It's described as "Shotokai" which i think is the same as shotokan? I am going Friday and i wondered whether or not i should research about the art some more first? the only experience i have of karate is seeing lyot machida and wonderboy in the ufc also a lot of videos posted to social media platforms the reason i chose karate is because it looks like an awesome style, i'd say possibly the best defensively and in terms of counter attacking, I hope i'd never have to use it and i doubt i ever will but yeah those are my reasons. |
Obviously it's up to you to decide whether or not to research the art first. But beware.
YouTube and the Internet are full of material geared towards people's own agenda.
A few years ago, there was a particular style of full contact karate that was all the rage. YouTube was full of videos showing practicioners defeating every other style. Then more recently we've seen lots of videos showing white belts of that style being knacked. Best way to research it is to do it for a while, then if you're still interested, by some books written by key figures from its lineage. |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| jasonis wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
Yup. Watch before you join in on it. What if they go through the warmups, basics and some drills, and everything is all fine and good, it then comes the sparring and you’re expected to spar bare knuckle when you didn’t know this was how they do things nor wanted a bare knuckle school?
. |
What? Does that ever happen? I've never heard of or witnessed a beginner being expected to spar before they're ready. Never.
That's not to say it doesn't happen. I've never known it or heard of it.
Is that something that happens in the US?
Quite apart from it being morally wrong to ask a new starter to spare before they're ready, it would also be dangerous not just for the new starter, but for the other students. What if the new kid is both completely mental and extremely tough? Are there really instructors out there that would take that risk before getting to know and trust the new starter?
Then there's the civil liability. The new person is effectively a guest. Are are there any insurance companies out there that are happy to cover clubs that throw visitors to the wolves? |
Unfortunately it still happens, but hopefully very, very rarely. That was the norm when my former and current teacher started. It wasn’t the norm, it it was still around when I first started in ‘94. I sparred my first night. Both of them shake their heads and say “yeah, we don’t do that anymore.” Too many hard lessons learned.
It’s an extreme example, and highly unlikely the OP will be subjected to it. In fact, I really hesitated to mention it at all. My main point was to watch and see what’s going on before jumping in. What if he works out with them, then realizes they’re a bare knuckle/full contact school? Even if he’s not allowed to spar that night or until he’s genuinely ready, what if he wants no part of that type of sparring? He’s spent the night working out in a dojo he’ll never join. What if he starts working out with them, then they break out into a chi ball no-touch knockout session? There’s an hour of his life he’ll never get back.
Another extreme example. My main realistic point is watch what’s going on before you get on the floor. |
Haha, I am pretty much up for most things, bare knuckle would not bother me at all, a chi ball no knockout session might be a huge turn off though! xD It's described as "Shotokai" which i think is the same as shotokan? I am going Friday and i wondered whether or not i should research about the art some more first? the only experience i have of karate is seeing lyot machida and wonderboy in the ufc also a lot of videos posted to social media platforms the reason i chose karate is because it looks like an awesome style, i'd say possibly the best defensively and in terms of counter attacking, I hope i'd never have to use it and i doubt i ever will but yeah those are my reasons. |
IMHO the style/name matters very little. If you find a good instructor and you learn then in the end the name means absolutely nothing.
Popular styles and household names can be taught by subpar instructors. Forget the name. Shotokai is a recognized art. Find out if the instructor is someone you would like to learn from and take a few lessons to see if it's for you. If the instructor is a good teacher and you like the classes then that is all that matters.
It's not like your taking superninjayogafit or some made up gobbly goop like that. Its a spin off of Shotokan. Go and see if you like it.
Good luck in your journey. I hope it works out for you.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll |
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Bulltahr
Brown Belt
Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 727
Location: NEW ZEALAND
Styles: Shotokan, Seido Juku
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Keep us posted Jason. Be interesting to see what your first impressions of Karate are after that first nights training.
Hope you enjoyed it!
_________________
"We don't have any money, so we will have to think" - Ernest Rutherford |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
Yup. Watch before you join in on it. What if they go through the warmups, basics and some drills, and everything is all fine and good, it then comes the sparring and you’re expected to spar bare knuckle when you didn’t know this was how they do things nor wanted a bare knuckle school?
. |
What? Does that ever happen? I've never heard of or witnessed a beginner being expected to spar before they're ready. Never.
That's not to say it doesn't happen. I've never known it or heard of it.
Is that something that happens in the US?
Quite apart from it being morally wrong to ask a new starter to spare before they're ready, it would also be dangerous not just for the new starter, but for the other students. What if the new kid is both completely mental and extremely tough? Are there really instructors out there that would take that risk before getting to know and trust the new starter?
Then there's the civil liability. The new person is effectively a guest. Are are there any insurance companies out there that are happy to cover clubs that throw visitors to the wolves? |
Based on your comments you probably were not around in the 70's. 
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll |
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: |
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The answer to all of life's questions in regards to when to start improving yourself is YESTERDAY. Start now. If you wait until your ideal perfect time, it will never come.
The same for sparring. Start on day 1 should the opportunity present itself. It helps give you an honest assessment of your strengths and weaknesses. A good club will not abuse you. They will understand you are new and do not know much yet.
Besides, you can always end the match by backing out.
_________________
"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching
"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano |
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Capella
Yellow Belt
Joined: 06 Nov 2019
Posts: 36
Location: Germany
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:13 am Post subject: |
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When I showed up for the first trial lesson at a kyokushin dojo, yes, I did sparr bareknuckle. Actually, apart from some judo randori when I was young, it was the first time I ever sparred at all. But it was totally alright. Everyone was very gentle with me. It is possible to sparr without any protective gear and still not hurt anyone too badly.
I did get a few bruises that night, but mostly from throwing some kind of attack that was blocked. That's normal, though. If you don't get bruises, you are not doing kyokushin. Not letting someone experience that when he comes to try out a class, would be misleading him. If you can't take a few bumps, then kyokushin is not your art. And that's what a trial lesson should be about, shouldn't it? |
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on the post.
