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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14265
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where there's 10, there'll be 10 more that will deride the original 10 because our experiences are different and not always in tune with one another.


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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14265
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: Should martial artist be considered a lethal weapon Reply with quote

michaelkar wrote:
i need 10 points on why they shouldnt be.

My 10 reasons why the MA isn't effective...all of the time...

1> People aren't perfect; neither is any MA.
2> Someone else, somewhere, is better.
3> Thresholds vary.
4> Guns and the like.
5> Boards don't hit back.
6> Waiting for an attack.
7> Applications flawed outside of ones mind.
8> Rigid transitions.
9> False securities about ones MA abilites.
10> There are other ways more effective to defend oneself than the MA.

Add all of this together it, imho, still boils down to this...People aren't perfect!!



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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27636
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harkon72 wrote:
Paradoxically, Martial Arts is the Way of Peace. You grow a reverence for all Life, Honor is what it's all about not Lethality. If you had understanding of any Martial Art; you would find no logic to this question.


I don't think this is a given across the board to all styles and philosophies. ITF TKD grew out of the Korean army. Styles like Aiki-jujutsu come from battlefield combat, as well. This is more of a personal choice than a hard fast rule of the Martial Arts, in my opinion.
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Harkon72
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 1875
Location: Wales
Styles: Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Ninpo.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I agree, maybe this view is idealistic. My father for example was a training officer with the Malayan Scouts, he taught his recruits to kill with no mercy. I have been fortunate to have the place of peace in my life so that violence is hardly an option outside the Dojo. My spiritual belief in harmony and honor is a life path that has come naturally in a freedom that was bought by the lives of those warriors that went before. I have seen conflict, I have fought where my life was at risk, but I accept that my karma will provide me a way to obtain peace for my soul. I always look to the far mountain in this plain of energy that we call reality. We have a simple choice; fear or love. The fearful put stronger locks on their doors and buy guns to defend themselves from their own demons. The way of love and peace is to search within and without for the sake of one humanity. The Bunkai of my Karate holds Termination techniques at every turn, but I hold out my hand first in friendship even to those who oppose me. Any man can think me a fool and a coward until they try and prove it. Blessed Be.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27636
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harkon72 wrote:
The Bunkai of my Karate holds Termination techniques at every turn, but I hold out my hand first in friendship even to those who oppose me. Any man can think me a fool and a coward until they try and prove it. Blessed Be.


I think that's a great way to view things, too, and I really don't have an issue with it. I have a great admiration for those who can view things in this way. I know some clergy members that I see as being like that. I just don't feel like I can be that way.

Statements like this concern me, though:

Harkon72 wrote:
We have a simple choice; fear or love. The fearful put stronger locks on their doors and buy guns to defend themselves from their own demons.


Buying a gun or putting bigger locks on doors doesn't make one fearful. It makes one prudent. I don't feel fear to the point that I have to own guns. I feel its prudent, especially due to my line of work, and I feel that I should do what is necessary to protect my family as much as I can, inlcuding locking the doors at night. But I don't think that is grounds to consider someone fearful.
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Harkon72
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 1875
Location: Wales
Styles: Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Ninpo.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a Wiccan, and we believe that what energy you give out, be it thought or deed returns to you but stronger. I have training in Kobodo weapons, many years and in a time of real need they would be used with no mercy. I do lock my door at night but I don't give out negative thoughts for what lies beyond. I meet each day with hope. I do not fear death, pain is temporary. I would defend my Loved ones with my life. But after all, the Natural Law is that Like attracts Like, and if you see aggressors in every shadow and fear each knock of the door; this is what your perception of the world will create. I am no fantasist, I have found light in the darkest places, I know evil exists but it has no power where honor and truth is found. I may perish this night, but I wont go easy; the evolution of the self is stronger than the shackles of any material world. Blessed Be.
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RW
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 323


PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea is not too applicable. It reminds me of that "black belts must register their hands as weapons" myth.

How does one assess when the martial artist is "a weapon"? Will Junior and Chrissy be considered "lethal weapons" now because their mom sends them to taekwondo class twice a week after school? I heard some schools give "cammo belts", so I guess there's that.

At what belt does one become a "weapon"? What arts will be classified as "weaponizing"?

And like it was mentioned here, there are blackbelts who aren't exactly good fighters, and there might be guys who are naturally amazing fighters (white belt or otherwise).

The idea doesn't really make much sense in my opinion.
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RW
Blue Belt
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 323


PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, someone can be an amazing martial artist but not such a great fighter
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1703

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The logical answer is a resounding "NO". A weapon is nothing more than an object. It is an implement intended by use or by design, for the purpose of killing.

Anything handled and used with intent can kill and thus be lethal. A simple stick, a sharp or heavy rock or a gun are all equal if the handler wants to kill whomever or whatever is the target.

However no object has the capacity to act, think and reflect by itself. This also applies to trained animals such as attack dogs. Human beings can think and it takes a human to make a weapon kill. Therefore it is unfathomable to attempt to categorize people as weapons themselves.

Even a well placed punch by an untrained person can kill under some circumstances. For that very reason, each person and situation must be considered individually.
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Spodo Komodo
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 291
Location: Derbyshire, UK
Styles: Wado Ryu, Shotokan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A drunk driver can be way more lethal than the most experienced martial artist.

Fast food is more effective at harming people than the average martial artist.

Nobody I have ever trained with has been seriously hurt by another martial artist. A neighbour of mine tripped over his sandals and ended up breaking his neck fatally - should sandals be considered lethal weapons?

On the scale of things to be worried about you barely notice martial artists way down at the bottom of the list.
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