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little kicker
Orange Belt
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 107
Location: wales
Styles: judo,boxing.
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 Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:08 pm Post subject: should you punch first? |
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well i had no idea how to handle this today,i was walkin home with a mate of mine (also a ma fighter although quite new to the sport she fights kyokushin karate)when a group of youngish teenagers bout 16 mostly girls actualy (know the type hoodies up lol )when they started shouting and swearing and threating etc which i ignored .so one of the girls comes up too me and tells me not to ignore her or she kick my head in then all her friends start circlling around us.there were about 4 of them who wanted to fight i probley coulve taken them at a push but didnt fancy chancing it lol.personally i hate street fighting and always avoid it at this point a friend came over (he's a bouncer and was workin on a door nearby) and broke it up 
this was deffinatly gonna go violent otherwise i couldnt negoiate out of this one they just wanted to hurt someone.so i was going over it in my mind should i wait for her to hit first but theyd probably all start at the same time or should i have gone pre emptive which is what i was going for.so guess my question is if someone is just verbal but you know it's gona go violent should you throw the first punch?
thanks all 
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cross
Black Belt
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1904
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| so i was going over it in my mind should i wait for her to hit first but theyd probably all start at the same time or should i have gone pre emptive which is what i was going for.so guess my question is if someone is just verbal but you know it's gona go violent should you throw the first punch? |
If you wait for someone else to hit first you have already lost. If you feel that your in direct danger then do what you have to do to get out of there. What kind of strike would you pre-empt with? A punch to the face, i wouldnt.
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| when they started shouting and swearing and threating etc which i ignored .so one of the girls comes up too me and tells me not to ignore her or she kick my head in then all her friends start circlling around us. |
The pre physical part is often over looked in martial arts training. Ignoring a threat is not the answer, putting your head in the sand isnt going to make it go away. You should see from what you just said that ignoring them just made them more aggressive. Learn how to deal with the phycological aspects of an assault and you wont have to rely on physical agression, or a bouncer to save you. |
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cross
Black Belt
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1904
Location: Australia
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30183
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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I am a very big proponent of the pre-emptive strike. If you get surrounded like that, and wait for the first strike, it may come from all sides, and you will quickly learn how bad a beating can be when you are outnumbered like that.
As for the technique I would use, I don't know. It would depend a lot on the aggresor's placement, what is open, and what the others are doing.
| cross wrote: |
| What kind of strike would you pre-empt with? A punch to the face, i wouldnt. |
I am curious as to what strike you would use, cross. I would probably punch, but that is just my nature, I guess. How about you?
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cross
Black Belt
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1904
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| I am a very big proponent of the pre-emptive strike. If you get surrounded like that, and wait for the first strike, it may come from all sides, and you will quickly learn how bad a beating can be when you are outnumbered like that. |
I completely agree. And ill add that when faced by multiple attackers you dont have much in your favour. Being pre-emptive and active, rather than passive and reactive, is one of the few things that can give you the upper hand.
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| I am curious as to what strike you would use, cross. I would probably punch, but that is just my nature, I guess. How about you? |
From my experience, 99% of the time i would start with:
A palm heal to the face: same body mechanics of a stiff jab.
or
An open handed slap(hitting with mainly the palm heal) : same mechanics has a left hook.
The reason i choose these is because i have drilled it over and over with and without partners, from the passive stance(this is an extremely effective setup for palms), and an unprepared position. They trigger you to pre-empt, you use a pattern interupting question to distract and then strike. There has not been a time so far when it hasnt landed if that procedure was followed correctly. The only time it wont work, is if you are 2 far away so they can see it coming, or if you dont use the question to distract them.
Why palm and not punch? We have all heard the story of mike tyson and other boxers breaking their hands when no gloves are involved. Did they punch incorrectly... possibly. But damage to the small bones in the hand is a very real problem involved with punching. Break your hand with your pre-empt and your left with one hand if you have to continue fighting. Palms are also good in that you can follow through like a punch, but if you dont bring your hand back you already have some control of the face and can rake or grab if the situation requires. Not to mention the legal advantage of slapping someone over punching them. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30183
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| cross wrote: |
| Why palm and not punch? We have all heard the story of mike tyson and other boxers breaking their hands when no gloves are involved. Did they punch incorrectly... possibly. But damage to the small bones in the hand is a very real problem involved with punching. Break your hand with your pre-empt and your left with one hand if you have to continue fighting. Palms are also good in that you can follow through like a punch, but if you dont bring your hand back you already have some control of the face and can rake or grab if the situation requires. Not to mention the legal advantage of slapping someone over punching them. |
Thanks for the info. That all makes really good sense. I like the idea of the distracting question as well.
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cross
Black Belt
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1904
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the info. That all makes really good sense. I like the idea of the distracting question as well. |
No problems. The key is simplicity and practice, like most things. Having at least a basic well practiced gameplan is much better than winging it or wondering what you could have done after the event. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30183
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| cross wrote: |
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| Thanks for the info. That all makes really good sense. I like the idea of the distracting question as well. |
No problems. The key is simplicity and practice, like most things. Having at least a basic well practiced gameplan is much better than winging it or wondering what you could have done after the event. |
That is sage advise right there....say, have you been reading my signature????? 
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cross
Black Belt
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1904
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| That is sage advise right there....say, have you been reading my signature????? |
Haha, i think ive said this before. Common sense is universal. Sometimes im lucky enough to use it. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30183
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| cross wrote: |
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| That is sage advise right there....say, have you been reading my signature????? |
Haha, i think ive said this before. Common sense is universal. Sometimes im lucky enough to use it. |
That is a good statement as well. 
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on the post.
