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What Karate Style do you practice?
Shotokan (-Ryu)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Goju-Ryu
75%
 75%  [ 3 ]
Shito-Ryu
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Wado-Ryu
25%
 25%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 4

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champ8309
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 01 May 2020
Posts: 13

Styles: Goju-Ryu

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 1:29 pm    Post subject: Signature Kata/Sequence of your Style Reply with quote

Konichiwa!
I am currently working on a kata. It's called "Yonnin" or "四人", meaning "four people". The four people represent Shotokan, Goju-Ryu, Shito-Ryu and Wado-Ryu.

What is the signature kata of your style or a specific sequence, which represents, what your Style values? Goju-Ryu for example has 2 Katas: Tensho and Sanchin.
Tensho represents the "Ju" or the Soft part, while Sanchin represents the "Go" or the hard part of Goju-Ryu.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14817
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Niahanchi series is seen as the core Kata of Shindokan Saitou-ryu.



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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2228
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being a Goju-Kai Practitioner, i'd say it is definitely Sanchin and Tensho that represent the style.

But out of curiosity, the kata you are working on; is it one of your own creation or one that your particular has in its curriculum?
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scohen0300
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 09 Feb 2016
Posts: 121
Location: It varies
Styles: Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu, Matayoshi Ryu Kobudo

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I practice Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu, so probably our Fukyugata Ichi. It was created by our founder, Shoshin Nagamine, and Chojun Miyagi. Our dojo performs the kata 100x on the day of Nagamine’s passing every year!
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champ8309
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 01 May 2020
Posts: 13

Styles: Goju-Ryu

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nidan Melbourne wrote:
Being a Goju-Kai Practitioner, i'd say it is definitely Sanchin and Tensho that represent the style.

But out of curiosity, the kata you are working on; is it one of your own creation or one that your particular has in its curriculum?


So, basically, it is my own creation. I stopped training at an official Dojo for the sake of my studies, so I am now on my own. So this is my own creation.
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champ8309
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 01 May 2020
Posts: 13

Styles: Goju-Ryu

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
The Niahanchi series is seen as the core Kata of Shindokan Saitou-ryu.




That is quite interesting! I am really sorry for not having put in the option "others" and/or "none of the above" in my poll.
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champ8309
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 01 May 2020
Posts: 13

Styles: Goju-Ryu

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scohen0300 wrote:
I practice Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu, so probably our Fukyugata Ichi. It was created by our founder, Shoshin Nagamine, and Chojun Miyagi. Our dojo performs the kata 100x on the day of Nagamine’s passing every year!


I see. The kata is very simple, yet a great way to master the main techniques. Thank you for sharing me this!
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Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 412
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The core of my karate is the Kata of Shorin-Ryu, specifically of the Kobayashi branch, and even more specifically the Kodokan as founded by Aragaki Isamu: senior student of Higa Yuchoku. The foundation of the approach is, as with most Itosu ha systems, the Naihanchigata with emphasis on Naihanchi Shodan. The fundamental ideas are all contained within Naihanchi regarding posture and power generation.

An argument can be made that Seisan is the most representative kata of this family of Shorin-Ryu. Higa Yuchoku's version of Seisan was evidently influenced by his studies of Naha Te under Shinzato Jinan, and though it largely follows the model of Matsumura no Seisan, it differs in the way it is performed in other schools of Shorin-Ryu. I, however, would argue Naihanchi Shodan is the definitive kata though.

I think it would be difficult to argue that one kata can be considered most representative of a system. Especially when many modern systems have more than a handful of kata before one reaches Yudansha standing. However, to assist you in your venture, if I was to venture educated assertions:

Shotokan: Kanku Dai. The supposed favourite of Funakoshi Gichin, and the lone "advanced" kata demonstrated in full in Funakoshi's first book. The other Shi-Tei Kata aside from Jion as proscribed by the WKF under their old rules for kata competition. Beside that it is very distinct: you are not going to mistake Kanku Dai for any other version of Kusanku Dai.

Goju-Ryu: Kururunfa and/or Tensho. Created by Miyagi Chojun and unique to Goju-Ryu.

Shito-Ryu: Aoiyagi and/or Juroku. Aoiyagi was created by Mabuni Kenwa and Konishi Yasuhiro as a kata for women's self-defence. It is practised in both Shi-to-Ryu and Shindo-Jinen-Ryu. A stronger argument can be made for Juroku, as it was created by Mabuni alone, is one of the first advanced kata taught in Shi-To-Ryu, and is the most widely practised of Mabuni's creations in contrast to Shinpa, Shinsei, or Myojo.

Wado-Ryu: Seisan. Seisan was a Shi-Tei kata for Wado-Ryu as was Chinto. Ohtsuka placed great emphasis on the proper learning of the mechanics of Seisan, and it remained one of the nine kata he continued to teach until his death. It is one of the first advanced kata learnt as well. As a version of Seisan it has a number of characteristic nuances which make it distinctly the Wado-Ryu version. Aside from the Pinangata I would argue it is the kata that Ohtsuka made into a kata of his own.

I am not going to warn against the creation of kata. I have created a couple of kata myself:

Hakuma (White Bear): A significant modification of a Kata my Shorei Kenpo instructor, a heterodox system, taught me called Bear Kata. I largely based it upon movements from the Tai-Sabaki Kata of Shindo-Jinen-Ryu, the retreating motions of the aforementioned Aoiyagi Kata, the Nage no Kata of Ashihara Karate, and sequences from Kusanku and Unsu where you go to the ground. Ultimately, the logic is applications against an attacker who has successfully grappled with you.

The other kata I developed is Kimari. It is based on 12 "high-percentile" combinations I based on the Kihon Kumite of Wado-Ryu, the Futari No Gata of Nippon Kempo, the Kumite no Gata of Ashihara Kaikan, the Mae Mai of Muay Thai, and the basic combinations of Shukokai. I devised it so it can be performed in a basic I Embusen or a straight line, and it has an "Ura" variation. Going forward the techniques are designed for taking the initiative, and going back they are designed to set up counters. It is also designed to be practiced in a two-man form with or without Bogu and Target pads. As can hopefully be gathered, I developed it for working on striking distance explicitly.

I will note that my research leads me to believe that most kata movements assume the attacker has already engaged you physically, and you are working to recapture the initiative. However, I believe most presume some degree of freedom of movement. I developed Hakuma kata for those instances where freedom of movement has been eliminated and you have to create it. From a self-defence perspective, Kimari was designed for when you are facing an evident threat but you are yet to come into contact. Mostly, I designed it for competition training that few of the traditional kata help with.

Point being, I think the development of Kata from one's own perspective and knowledgebase can be useful. Especially if it is to fulfil a need the kata one has do not necessarily fulfil. However, I have outlined my reasoning because I think it is important to have just that: reasoning. The creation of kata for the sake of creativity behind closed doors can be fun, but, if the interest is in furthering your own training or creating an aide for students: I advise the creative process be guided by research and goal-orientation.

Please note: I consider the kata I have created closed-door kata. I do not teach them to people that are not my direct students, and neither do I have videos of them.
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champ8309
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 01 May 2020
Posts: 13

Styles: Goju-Ryu

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wado Heretic wrote:
The core of my karate is the Kata of Shorin-Ryu, specifically of the Kobayashi branch, and even more specifically the Kodokan as founded by Aragaki Isamu: senior student of Higa Yuchoku. The foundation of the approach is, as with most Itosu ha systems, the Naihanchigata with emphasis on Naihanchi Shodan. The fundamental ideas are all contained within Naihanchi regarding posture and power generation.

An argument can be made that Seisan is the most representative kata of this family of Shorin-Ryu. Higa Yuchoku's version of Seisan was evidently influenced by his studies of Naha Te under Shinzato Jinan, and though it largely follows the model of Matsumura no Seisan, it differs in the way it is performed in other schools of Shorin-Ryu. I, however, would argue Naihanchi Shodan is the definitive kata though.

I think it would be difficult to argue that one kata can be considered most representative of a system. Especially when many modern systems have more than a handful of kata before one reaches Yudansha standing. However, to assist you in your venture, if I was to venture educated assertions:

Shotokan: Kanku Dai. The supposed favourite of Funakoshi Gichin, and the lone "advanced" kata demonstrated in full in Funakoshi's first book. The other Shi-Tei Kata aside from Jion as proscribed by the WKF under their old rules for kata competition. Beside that it is very distinct: you are not going to mistake Kanku Dai for any other version of Kusanku Dai.

Goju-Ryu: Kururunfa and/or Tensho. Created by Miyagi Chojun and unique to Goju-Ryu.

Shito-Ryu: Aoiyagi and/or Juroku. Aoiyagi was created by Mabuni Kenwa and Konishi Yasuhiro as a kata for women's self-defence. It is practised in both Shi-to-Ryu and Shindo-Jinen-Ryu. A stronger argument can be made for Juroku, as it was created by Mabuni alone, is one of the first advanced kata taught in Shi-To-Ryu, and is the most widely practised of Mabuni's creations in contrast to Shinpa, Shinsei, or Myojo.

Wado-Ryu: Seisan. Seisan was a Shi-Tei kata for Wado-Ryu as was Chinto. Ohtsuka placed great emphasis on the proper learning of the mechanics of Seisan, and it remained one of the nine kata he continued to teach until his death. It is one of the first advanced kata learnt as well. As a version of Seisan it has a number of characteristic nuances which make it distinctly the Wado-Ryu version. Aside from the Pinangata I would argue it is the kata that Ohtsuka made into a kata of his own.

I am not going to warn against the creation of kata. I have created a couple of kata myself:

Hakuma (White Bear): A significant modification of a Kata my Shorei Kenpo instructor, a heterodox system, taught me called Bear Kata. I largely based it upon movements from the Tai-Sabaki Kata of Shindo-Jinen-Ryu, the retreating motions of the aforementioned Aoiyagi Kata, the Nage no Kata of Ashihara Karate, and sequences from Kusanku and Unsu where you go to the ground. Ultimately, the logic is applications against an attacker who has successfully grappled with you.

The other kata I developed is Kimari. It is based on 12 "high-percentile" combinations I based on the Kihon Kumite of Wado-Ryu, the Futari No Gata of Nippon Kempo, the Kumite no Gata of Ashihara Kaikan, the Mae Mai of Muay Thai, and the basic combinations of Shukokai. I devised it so it can be performed in a basic I Embusen or a straight line, and it has an "Ura" variation. Going forward the techniques are designed for taking the initiative, and going back they are designed to set up counters. It is also designed to be practiced in a two-man form with or without Bogu and Target pads. As can hopefully be gathered, I developed it for working on striking distance explicitly.

I will note that my research leads me to believe that most kata movements assume the attacker has already engaged you physically, and you are working to recapture the initiative. However, I believe most presume some degree of freedom of movement. I developed Hakuma kata for those instances where freedom of movement has been eliminated and you have to create it. From a self-defence perspective, Kimari was designed for when you are facing an evident threat but you are yet to come into contact. Mostly, I designed it for competition training that few of the traditional kata help with.

Point being, I think the development of Kata from one's own perspective and knowledgebase can be useful. Especially if it is to fulfil a need the kata one has do not necessarily fulfil. However, I have outlined my reasoning because I think it is important to have just that: reasoning. The creation of kata for the sake of creativity behind closed doors can be fun, but, if the interest is in furthering your own training or creating an aide for students: I advise the creative process be guided by research and goal-orientation.

Please note: I consider the kata I have created closed-door kata. I do not teach them to people that are not my direct students, and neither do I have videos of them.


The information you have is outstanding! Thank you for sharing this with me! And as to clarify why I am making this: The kata should have enough techniques and sequences that are different from each other, so that I can use the kata for the benefit of training correct technique, stance shifting and actually supposed to (if I have a student of my own, since I am only sankyu) teach how to finish a fight by stopping them, not killing them. I want to emphasize that Karate was intended to be for self defense, and not murder. Again, arigato gozaimasu Wado Heretic-senpai!
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scohen0300
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 09 Feb 2016
Posts: 121
Location: It varies
Styles: Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu, Matayoshi Ryu Kobudo

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

champ8309 wrote:
scohen0300 wrote:
I practice Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu, so probably our Fukyugata Ichi. It was created by our founder, Shoshin Nagamine, and Chojun Miyagi. Our dojo performs the kata 100x on the day of Nagamine’s passing every year!


I see. The kata is very simple, yet a great way to master the main techniques. Thank you for sharing me this!


Of course! I believe Nagamine Sensei wanted something that was firmly rooted in the basics, yet still accessible to beginner students of all ages.
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