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Bretty101
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 458


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2002 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

Just out of interest which of you do your patterns sine wave style and which of you do them the more solid Karate Fashion? (if you know what i mean?)

I do mine the more solid way because i don't think anyone has ever explained the idea of sine wave to me before.

What are you thoughts?

Bretty
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KickChick
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 02 Aug 2001
Posts: 3282


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2002 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a good question!!
This seems to be the primary difference in the pracrice of forms/hyungs between the ITF and WTF. The ITF uses a stepping movement for all hand techniques. This `stepping motion' is referred to by ITF practioners as knee spring or up/down motion. It causes the body to move in a "sine wave" (Hwaldung Pahdo) resulting in the whole body being involved at the moment of impact, blocking or attacking.
This techniques is not just used for hand-techniques. It is used in ITF kicking techniques as well.
Sine waving allows for greater power by utilising our body mass effectively and permits greater control over our movements.
The Sine wave is (partly) created by effective use of the leg muscles which is also known as "Knee Spring". At the beginning
of a technique you should "drop" your body weight, and then increase your height before dropping again towards the end of the technique.

To understand this you really need to be able to see it performed.

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[ This Message was edited by: KickChick on 2002-02-18 10:07 ]
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SBN Doug
KF VIP

Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 3767
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Kuk Sool Won

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2002 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I only know sine waves from college calculus and physics.

Then again, I'm in a Korean art too. Does it refer to a softer version of the pattern?
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Cory Reynolds
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 17 Jan 2002
Posts: 77
Location: Madison

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2002 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha ha! I was thinking the same thing as KSN when I read the name of the thread! I've never performed forms in the sine fashion, but from all the different times that I've seen it done I've thought that it looked rather inefficient. Even when done properly, I thought the practicioners looked un balanced (not to be confused with off balance) and like they were wasting energy.

I'm curious if people have taken the sine motion and ever tried punching a body shield or some other target in this way. With the constant rising up and down and indirect placement of power, I'd think that it would cause anyone to stop practicing in this way if they were trying to get more power. Anyone please let me know if they have discovered otherwise.
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Bretty101
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 458


PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2002 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kinda agree with all of you, tho i don't really understand the sine wave thing.

I think along the lines of how we power test all our techniques by breaking a brick with them. Now i wouldn't use the sine wave to break a brick just straight line power and speed, but then isn't that just showing my ignorance.

I'd hoped there would be some people who understand it so they could (try and) make me understand it. I'm very open minded but coming from a strong physics back ground i don't really understand it.

Also having seen the power and solidness that Karate practitioners generate in their katas i try and imitate this.

Bretty
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Bon
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 10 Aug 2001
Posts: 1047
Location: Australia
Styles: BJJ, Kickboxing

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2002 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

::edit::

Last edited by Bon on Sun Sep 29, 2002 2:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bretty101
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 458


PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2002 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah i understand your centre of gravity moves up and down like a sine-wave. We all do that a bit right?!

Well if i'm honest, i think the bouncing thing is pants. I'd hoped someone would prove me other wize.

I take it that no one here does sine wave?

Bretty
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