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bushido_man96
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Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject: Sparring and Discussions Reply with quote

I wasn't sure how to title this thread, so let me clarify a bit. I was thinking about sparring, and sparring classes in general. It's easy to get the students together and do some drills and a lot of sparring, and then to try to point out issues while sparring for the students to work on, and then hope they do so.

However, I was thinking of taking a different approach. Perhaps not for every sparring session, as it can be quite time consuming, but perhaps in a sparring-specific class setting, sparring for a round or two with a partner, and then afterwards taking anywhere from 2-5 minutes to discuss the match with each other. Break each other down, asking what one was seeing the other do, how they were scoring, etc. Then up and spar another round or two, and work on the flaws. Then rotate to someone new and do the same thing again.

I think this could be a highly valuable format for a sparring class. Does anyone already take this approach? I'd love to hear feedback.
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is how critiques in art classes are carried out, which are part of developing students to develop critical (not criticising) thinking skills.

In this way, it is a group effort "to help each" other as opposed to being negative and hurtful.

As long as everyone is in agreement that this is done in an absolute positive manner, then everyone will benefit from this type of encouragement, with helpful suggestions and explanations from all.

Then it is a great idea having sparring critiques.
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Wastelander
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Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is what I do in private lessons for people who want to work on their sparring, a lot of the time, and I do it here and there in sparring classes. As you mention, it does take up a lot of time, and the more students you have in class, the more time it takes, but it's definitely really valuable. It's absolutely the approach I would take for anyone training for a fight, especially.
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DWx
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
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Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Video works great for this. One of the best sparring seminars I went to was where the course leader had a projector and showed sparring clips, broke them down, then had us practice drills specific to that particular combo or counter.

I do something similar with my competitors in that I get them to video themselves in competition and send it to me. Then I build up a sparring class for the whole group based on weaknesses or things I want them to improve upon.

I think your discussion-based classes would work great in small focused groups do to how much time it would take.
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pers
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Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 503
Location: England
Styles: shotokan

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
This is how critiques in art classes are carried out, which are part of developing students to develop critical (not criticising) thinking skills.

In this way, it is a group effort "to help each" other as opposed to being negative and hurtful.

As long as everyone is in agreement that this is done in an absolute positive manner, then everyone will benefit from this type of encouragement, with helpful suggestions and explanations from all.

Then it is a great idea having sparring critiques.


Very well said Allan, this attitude is not very common in among clubs members.

The attitude of helping each other out in sparring, even in its basic form in karate for example.
Best help to your sparring partner and yourself is the attitude of "I try to hit you but not hurt you as fast as I can thus by doing so giving you a chance to sharpen your defences and in doing so training my own tools of trade and tactics.
A win win situation.
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent posts so far.

For the most part, we do a plethora of Kumite, anywhere from Ippon Kumite to
Jiyu Ippon Kumite. At no time are students left of there own devices to fend for themselves on the floor.

We break things down...tear things down...then, we rebuild it so that students have a clear and concise understanding of what is up or down or inside or outside, and we don't leave said subject until I'm satisfied that they do understand.

I love to drill my students as though there's no tomorrow, including Kumite. For me, and the way I was taught, get out there, and spar until the wheels fall off, and then some. Students never spar the same sparring partner because it can become quite stale and dead.

I've used video for as long as I can remember, and yes, this is a great and valuable tools for the students; they see their mistakes, and they're gently guided towards them understanding by my Instructors and/or myself.



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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wastelander wrote:
That is what I do in private lessons for people who want to work on their sparring, a lot of the time, and I do it here and there in sparring classes. As you mention, it does take up a lot of time, and the more students you have in class, the more time it takes, but it's definitely really valuable. It's absolutely the approach I would take for anyone training for a fight, especially.


I'm hoping to do this in some future classes, for sure. I think I can limit the time it takes up by timing out rounds and rest periods, and perhaps at the end of class allotting extra time for stretching out and allowing the students to discuss their matches with each other a bit more extensively.
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
Wastelander wrote:
That is what I do in private lessons for people who want to work on their sparring, a lot of the time, and I do it here and there in sparring classes. As you mention, it does take up a lot of time, and the more students you have in class, the more time it takes, but it's definitely really valuable. It's absolutely the approach I would take for anyone training for a fight, especially.


I'm hoping to do this in some future classes, for sure. I think I can limit the time it takes up by timing out rounds and rest periods, and perhaps at the end of class allotting extra time for stretching out and allowing the students to discuss their matches with each other a bit more extensively.
This is a great idea, as some people when sparring lack self control and hit unnecessary hard, which I am sure there are those that if given the chance, would bring this topic up; among other things.
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bushido_man96
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Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Video works great for this. One of the best sparring seminars I went to was where the course leader had a projector and showed sparring clips, broke them down, then had us practice drills specific to that particular combo or counter.

I do something similar with my competitors in that I get them to video themselves in competition and send it to me. Then I build up a sparring class for the whole group based on weaknesses or things I want them to improve upon.

I think your discussion-based classes would work great in small focused groups do to how much time it would take.


The video option is a good idea, too. I've done that before with forms, but not with sparring. What I found was that you can tell a student over and over again what it is they're doing, but in their mind, they have a certain way they see it. When you show it to them on video, then it kind of clicks with them, as they get to see it themselves. I think the benefits this could have on sparring strategies would be awesome.

In sparring class, we encourage the students to try out new tactics, different techniques, and the like in order to get used to different things, get out of their comfort zones, and broaden their repertoire. Seeing things on video would be helpful in this. This would probably take more time, for sure, but would be worthwhile to do periodically.
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sensei8
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
DWx wrote:
Video works great for this. One of the best sparring seminars I went to was where the course leader had a projector and showed sparring clips, broke them down, then had us practice drills specific to that particular combo or counter.

I do something similar with my competitors in that I get them to video themselves in competition and send it to me. Then I build up a sparring class for the whole group based on weaknesses or things I want them to improve upon.

I think your discussion-based classes would work great in small focused groups do to how much time it would take.


The video option is a good idea, too. I've done that before with forms, but not with sparring. What I found was that you can tell a student over and over again what it is they're doing, but in their mind, they have a certain way they see it. When you show it to them on video, then it kind of clicks with them, as they get to see it themselves. I think the benefits this could have on sparring strategies would be awesome.

In sparring class, we encourage the students to try out new tactics, different techniques, and the like in order to get used to different things, get out of their comfort zones, and broaden their repertoire. Seeing things on video would be helpful in this. This would probably take more time, for sure, but would be worthwhile to do periodically.

What I choose to do is to run a split screen for them to observe. On the right, is me doing said technique(s), and on the left is my student doing that same said technique(s).

First, the student observes themselves executing said technique(s) in full screen mode. Then the student observes me executing said technique(s) in same full screen mode. Then, for me this is key, is that once I sync screens so that they can run split screen and at the same time side by side, the student can really become awakened as to what they're doing versus what I'm doing.

No, my intent isn't to have my students to be exact copycats of myself, that would be wrong of me, but to discover where they might make those those necessary corrections in which they can be more consistent in their effectiveness.

The sync split screen has jogged many students minds more then any other teaching tool that's at my disposal.



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