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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16420
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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 Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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What I'm saying is that, no matter the size of the individual, either one can or one can't defend themselves!! IF, a smaller stature of an individual can not defend themselves against a larger stature of an individual, and that smaller individual has both the effective knowledge and experience about themselves, then something is awry.
An effective practitioner should be able to defend themselves without any concerns as to stature of any opponent. After all, we're talking about the MA, and not something else.
In all of my many years in the MA, I've had countless amount of prospective students wonder about this very same thing. "How can I defend myself against someone who's much larger than I am!!" My answer..."Quite effectively, and with great resolve!!"
With the MA, shouldn't the smaller stature mindset be only an illusion, at best?! Or is the MA nothing more than a fantasy?! I'm not saying that a smaller stature should not ever be aware of a larger stature!! However, being overly concerned can be a very bad thing.
And yes, Greg and I literally tried to kill each other; that's us...that's how WE trained with one another!! Did we ever hurt each other?? Oh, yeah...many times!! You should've seen how Soke and Dai-Soke were whenever they Kumite one another...BEASTS...you'd think that one of them stole something from the other one!!
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not a big guy and yes I have done well against my larger opponents perhaps because I show my unpredictable unstable side.
But my victories have come with the price of many defeats from an earlier time, being inexperienced and out reached when exchanging punches.
Size for me isn't everything at this point but that has taken many years of experience and understanding.
What seems impossible can change due to the changes over time, that things become possible, it's just a live and learn over the course of time. |
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JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Alan - I'm not going to quote the long multi-quote thing we've been quoting...
I'm not saying people should beat each other senseless nor to "within inches of their lives" during training. What I'm saying is there's a time and a place to spar hard. Just as there's a time and a place to go lightly.
Maybe it's the former bare knuckle karateka in me. Or the former wrestler in me. I've seen too many people reach relatively high ranks without any real pressure nor hard contact during training. People start to realize what really works for them and what doesn't when they've got someone throwing strikes with some intent behind them (not killing intent, but enough intent to make the person really have to move). I've seen people throw these pretty kicks and punches at the air and at sparring partners have their form to completely out the window when they've got to hit a heavy bag or shield with power. There was a guy who joined my previous dojo who was a 2nd dan in another karate system before relocating and joining our dojo. He was great until someone hit him. And it genuinely wasn't that hard of a hit, it was just well placed and timed. All his previous training seemed non-existent. After a few months of some giving and receiving some decent contact, it finally clicked for him.
And none of this was out for blood nor cage match level contact. But it certainly wasn't tap tap fighting like a lot of dojo warriors are used to either.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with light to no-contact MA IMO. The caveat is that the person is fully aware that that's not in any way shape or form to be considered self defense. Rather they must be aware that's its glorified cardio kickboxing in pajamas with some foreign language stuff and traditions mixed in.
All IMO. |
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| gunner wrote: |
| Develop a "fight plan" and execute what you want to do. I see so many spar without any plan. Thar's a fail. |
How do you develop a " Fight Plan " & when ? I mean do you have a basic plan you use most of time / modify it some times or your plan will differs from one opponent to another & in this case will you put the plan while you are sparring or before (in case you know your opponent) ? I can't imagine myself planning while I am sparring, I usually am already overwhelmed (I am just very beginner in sparring).
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"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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Safroot
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 911
Location: Sydney, Australia
Styles: Kyokushin
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: Sparring Block? |
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| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
| You can practice reactionary drills to improve your reaction time and to get your body and eyes working at the same time |
Sorry to ask but I am just a beginner, what is the " Reactionary Drills " ?!
_________________
"The Martial Arts begin with a point and end in a circle."
Sosai Mas Oyama founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
My approach to Kumite is quite barbaric, and oftentimes, unsympathetic!!
"Just get out there, and fight!!" ~ Takahashi Sensei
Takahashi Sensei, our Dai-Soke, was barbaric in his approach to Kumite. He despised excuses when it came to any and all Kumite drills from his students. In his mind, to learn how to fight, one must get out there and fight...win or lose...just engage!!
While I'm vaguely sympathetic as to the difficulties that students face when it concerns Kumite and the like, I've my limits as to my tolerance. Want to be able to defend yourself? Then get out there and fight for your life!!
Every time that Greg and I would face each other on the floor for Kumite, we literally tried to kill each other, and those who've witnessed our training, we shocked at the raw barbaric tone that it had, but were amazed at the beauty of it all.
It is said, the only way to defeat fear is to face it head on; taking no prisoners!!
I'm aware that my advice here might not be possible for all students, but sooner or later, you'll have to face that fear one way or another.
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The barbaric way (hard styles) are fine when each opponent is fairly matched in size and weight but this is not the way of the other (soft styles) that are for smaller and weaker people, which are more appropriate for most everyone else. |
Imho...
I just don't understand how and when MAists become so engrossed with size and weight and the like. Either you can defend yourself or you can't!! To me, this is a failed attempt to excuse off ones MA shortcomings.
Never underestimate your opponent!! That has to count for something...doesn't it...anymore?!?
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Solid post. I agree.
When I started the smallest guy was put with the largest guy and you learned how to capitalize on your strengths and his weaknesses.
I was usually one of the smallest, late bloomer, and I found that speed, technique and precision over came strength and size.
Of course this is before weight became an issue. This to me is a mental block for a Karateka. If you're told through out your training you can not fight this guy or that because they are bigger or smaller, what do you do when you meet someone fitting this description on the street?
The worse beating I ever had was from a 120 lb guy with glasses and a soft spoken manner. Size doesn't mean as much as people purport it to be.
I have fought guys twice my weight and guys smaller than me. You win or you loose. That's pretty much it.
Remember that on the streets their is no referee to weigh you in and call no fair if you don't weigh the same. |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
My approach to Kumite is quite barbaric, and oftentimes, unsympathetic!!
"Just get out there, and fight!!" ~ Takahashi Sensei
Takahashi Sensei, our Dai-Soke, was barbaric in his approach to Kumite. He despised excuses when it came to any and all Kumite drills from his students. In his mind, to learn how to fight, one must get out there and fight...win or lose...just engage!!
While I'm vaguely sympathetic as to the difficulties that students face when it concerns Kumite and the like, I've my limits as to my tolerance. Want to be able to defend yourself? Then get out there and fight for your life!!
Every time that Greg and I would face each other on the floor for Kumite, we literally tried to kill each other, and those who've witnessed our training, we shocked at the raw barbaric tone that it had, but were amazed at the beauty of it all.
It is said, the only way to defeat fear is to face it head on; taking no prisoners!!
I'm aware that my advice here might not be possible for all students, but sooner or later, you'll have to face that fear one way or another.
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The barbaric way (hard styles) are fine when each opponent is fairly matched in size and weight but this is not the way of the other (soft styles) that are for smaller and weaker people, which are more appropriate for most everyone else. |
Imho...
I just don't understand how and when MAists become so engrossed with size and weight and the like. Either you can defend yourself or you can't!! To me, this is a failed attempt to excuse off ones MA shortcomings.
Never underestimate your opponent!! That has to count for something...doesn't it...anymore?!?
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Overpowering an opponent is what bigger people do and out maneuvering is what smaller people do.
A small person's force against a bigger person's force is not intelligent strategy, due to being that it's just not using common sense.
For a smaller person to duke it out with a much larger person is plain and stupid.
That's why some martial arts styles exists better for smaller and weaker people, that are not based on brute strength alone. |
Alan,
No offense intended but I do not buy in to the "certain styles for smaller vs certain styles for larger" claims.
I was always told that Shorin Ryu (Suidi/shuri-te) styles where for smaller people and Goju-Ryu and the like (Naha Te) styles where for larger people.
As a child I gravitated towards the Shuri-Te styles do to this but when I was older and took Goju-Ryu I found this premise to be completely false.
I have trained in Gung-Fu styles that are supposed to be soft and some hard. This I believe is not accurate as most styles contain both.
Meeting a larger individual power on power is crazy. However lets be honest, most styles teach us to maneuver around an opponent and utilize evasiveness and speed versus tangling up with them. However if you never train with larger individuals how do you know how to execute this with any efficiency.
Every student I have ever taught fights with everyone no matter the weight or size. This is how lessons are learned and one builds confidence so that, God forbid, that day comes when they are confronted with a person twice their size they know how to handle themselves.
I have to agree with Sensei8 on this one. Size is only an issue if you make it an issue.
Again if your told you can't fight a certain size/weight you will fold when you need to. You are already mentally defeated.
A fight is 90% mentality. "Its not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog".
I have seen this play out too many times in civilian life and military life. If you believe you can win you will win or do enough damage that you can escape with your life. If you believe you can't win you will loose every time. |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Martial arts can breed fear in to students.
It was once asked here on KF.com "Do you fear your Sensei or is it respect"
Looking back I believe it was fear conditioning 80% and respect eventually flew out the window over time.
Also with the external styles, it is based on toughness and domination, not techniques and skill.
When a person does posses technically skillful martial arts then they are labeled as flowery and ineffective.
This is why breaking bricks, boards and chunks of ice is important, to show off who is the toughest.
As Bruce Lee pointed out "Boards don't hit back" |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
Martial arts can breed fear in to students.
It was once asked here on KF.com "Do you fear your Sensei or is it respect"
Looking back I believe it was fear conditioning 80% and respect eventually flew out the window over time.
Also with the external styles, it is based on toughness and domination, not techniques and skill.
When a person does posses technically skillful martial arts then they are labeled as flowery and ineffective.
This is why breaking bricks, boards and chunks of ice is important, to show off who is the toughest.
As Bruce Lee pointed out "Boards don't hit back" |
I could not disagree with your premise more.
I guess you would call my style external but it is not about domination. Yes we do condition to toughen the body and it's natural weapons but the main premise and the teachings of the art is focused on skill and technique.
Again I will state that without being put up against opponents of different sizes and skill ranges one can not learn to overcome this type of opponent.
Tameshiwari is not about toughness. It's about focus, technique and body mechanics.
I don't really care how tough someone is, without the proper training there is only one scenario in breaking (unless you kiln dry your medium which is to me nothing but a magicians trick which serves no purpose), the tough guy goes to the hospital with a broken hand/foot/elbow/knee/head/whatever.
To answer your fear comment... I never feared my Shinshii. He was a gentle soul and great teacher. I never hated him for putting me into situations in which I learned my true limits.
My students have never feared me because I want them to reach their potential and despite what you might think I am not barbaric nor do a subscribe to barbaric methods. All training is controlled. However if you never let a caged bird fly, they drop to the ground when released.
Facing your fears is a part of the journey. If you do not want to be put into situations were you may feel uncomfortable then you should not be in the arts. It's about the perfection of ones self, learning to concur ones fears, pushing past limitations and yes you might meet up with someone that is bigger, stronger, faster and meaner than you. This is were mentality and intent comes into play along with training.
I understand your premise but I disagree with it. Maybe that is my old school up bringing or maybe it's because I'm old and was brought up in a different time and mind set. However you don't concur your fears by sitting on the sidelines and watching and you do not walk out of a dark alley if you have never confronted someone that is bigger and badder than you are.
How do you propose to teach a student to overcome adversity unless they DO IT? |
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on the post.
