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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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 Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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You are one of the fortunate, to have had a great relationship with your Sensei; however this is not everyone's experience; for me some 35 years ago.
My Sensei was legendary for his toughness in the city where I learned my karate as he was also a bouncer in night clubs there.
He also did some strange performances in martial art tournaments, such as piercing himself with meat hooks and shish kebab skewers and hanging heavy things and obects from them.
He put a death grip on my throat, as I merely walked in to the changing room one time; I was in shock from that experience at a yellow belt level.
Most people that knew this person were justifiably in fear from him, in and out of the Dojo.
During a bout as an orange belt, I did manage to floor my Sensei with a front kick; it gave me a reputation that lasted for a few decades.
Must admit that having an ultra rough and tough Sensei in the beginning; made many other CI's in my future seem like kittens in comparison.
I find it ironic that those that practice breaking techniques the most such as punching and kicking styles, have the greatest difficulty with grapplers that more often than not choke them out; why is that?
(Grapplers don't practice or try to choke out inanimate objects!)
(To overcome the outcome)
To overcome my adversities regarding fighting and fear, is to continually train and practice every part of my being, to be in the most advantageous positions while simultaneously attacking my opponent's most vulnerable areas; relentlessly without thought or remorse of the outcome;
or just walk away! LOL |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
I find it ironic that those that practice breaking techniques the most such as punching and kicking styles, have the greatest difficulty with grapplers that more often than not choke them out; why is that?
(Grapplers don't practice or try to choke out inanimate objects!)
(To overcome the outcome)
To overcome my adversities regarding fighting and fear, is to continually train and practice every part of my being, to be in the most advantageous positions while simultaneously attacking my opponent's most vulnerable areas; relentlessly without thought or remorse of the outcome;
or just walk away! LOL |
I'm not sure what your point is.
Tameshiwari has absolutely nothing to do with grappling or being tough as I mentioned before in my previous post. So I have no idea what coloration you are trying to make between those that utilize this practice and grappler's choking someone out.
I have had my fair share of fights with wrestlers and have come out ahead in more than not of those situations. I can not comment on Ju Jutsu or any other grappling art except Judo which I took years ago and hold the humble rank of Yonkyu in, because I have never been put, or should I say I have never put myself in this situation. I'm not sure how that would turn out and I will not make a false statement I can not back up.
I guess I don't really understand your point. I guess you are quoting someone with the "relentlessly without thought or remorse of the outcome; or just walk away" but this actually goes against what you were pointing out earlier about putting smaller against bigger opponents, and among other comments you had made.
Can you clarify your views so that I can understand where you are coming from? I am sure this is coming off as abrasive or confrontational, but I do not mean it that way. I actually want to understand what you mean by this and ultimately what your point is. |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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(To overcome the outcome) isn't a quotation from someone else.
Breaking (Tameshiwari) ribs or grapplers breaking joints; for me same difference; both are methods to cripple or severely injure another person.
I've been in situations that I had a choice to possibly injure another person very seriously, but I chose to walk away instead.
Being a martial artist should be a way to promote peace as opposed to seeing how much of a damaging force is possible to infiict on another person.
Perhaps a sparring block is something worth practicing in a dojo, why fight someone that I have no problem with. This was Mohamed Ali's stand against going to war against the Vietnameses.
People in wars are taught that the enemy is sub human, making it is justifiably easy to kill them.
I had fellow student that needed to sit it out when we sparred, during a JKD class. I pointed out to him what my strategy was, even still, what I was doing was very overwhelming for him. He explained to me that he understands what I'm doing but his body just cannot react to it. I coached him out of it (this sparring block) yes he did snap out of it eventually; with some subtle relaxed sparring practice.
There is alot of "fork tounge" in martial arts as being solely used for self defense porpoises, ironically more often than not it is used as a confidence building tool or for brutality justifications; as well as knocking out opponents that there is no real reason in it, only for the sport of it.
Martial art styles teach how to attack and defend within the style. Do something different with in that style that hasn't learned how to defend against it, then it is called unorthodox, with a rashional explanation why it isn't practiced or taught.
Same style with approximately the same experience and the bigger will win more times than not. If the smaller one wins then an exterior influence has tipped the scales to victory.
So much has been said for instance of how effective BJJ is. But never has it been mentioned that the Gracie's body types is very conducive for Jujitsu.
Just as the Korean body type is very suitable for kicking with.
As Chinese martial arts styles have developed from using body structure and body mechanics that are not based on developing overly big muscles to generate power.
While Karate is based on smaller stocky body types that utilizes lower gravity techniques.
Yes I'm generalizing here about stereotyping martial arts and Asian bodytypes, of course there are many exceptions described but I believe there is also a strong element of truth to these observations.
Martial arts is a way to increase one's chances of winning a physical confrontation against another person that is bigger, faster or more athletic than oneself.
This martial arts as a way... can take years or a lifetime to achieve, with no guarantees or promises attached, that can only minimally at best help to increase a person's chances of survival in unforeseeable, unpredictable circumstance and environments. |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| Breaking (Tameshiwari) ribs or grapplers breaking joints; for me same difference; both are methods to cripple or severely injure another person. |
I get where you are going with this but to me they are very different both in practice and application but based on your definition... Ok I'll agree.
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| I've been in situations that I had a choice to possibly injure another person very seriously, but I chose to walk away instead. |
This is a very common situation within the arts and most have this same experience. We are taught to walk away from those we know do not present a danger to us, the "talkers", if attacked we are taught to only use the force that is necessary to end the situation with the smallest amount of damage to the opponent, if attacked by a more skilled or larger opponent you do what you have to to end the fight. I don't know of too many traditional arts that stress going over board.
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| Being a martial artist should be a way to promote peace as opposed to seeing how much of a damaging force is possible to infiict on another person. |
Not sure where this comes from? I do not teach nor have I been taught to be the aggressor. Having said that if some one attacks me they do so at their own peril. I will do what is necessary to end the conflict quickly and with as minimal damage to my attacker as possible. However if given the choice between life or death, I will do what it takes to live every time even if that means the loss of life of my attacker.
I am not sure where this whole promoting peace bit comes from. No matter what art you study it has it's roots in combat.
No sane human being wants conflict nor looks for it. However make no mistake, we train for combat/conflict so that if we are unfortunate enough to stumble into a conflict we can go home at the end of the day.
I prepare my students for conflict and pray they never need to use what I have taught. But I don't think this can be translated into promoting peace.
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| Perhaps a sparring block is something worth practicing in a dojo, why fight someone that I have no problem with. This was Mohamed Ali's stand against going to war against the Vietnameses. |
As a Marine I will skip answering to this as I have a different mind set on the topic.
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| People in wars are taught that the enemy is sub human, making it is justifiably easy to kill them. |
This could not be farther from the truth. I take it you never served?
What makes it easy to kill your enemy is the fact that they are trying to kill you. It's called self preservation.
No one ever told me that this enemy or that enemy was sub human. If they were trying to kill me then I was trying to kill them. It really is that simple.
There is an argument for not entering into a war and there are arguments for going to war. What ever your stand is on this subject is for you and you alone and a whole other topic for discussion.
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| There is alot of "fork tounge" in martial arts as being solely used for self defense porpoises, ironically more often than not it is used as a confidence building tool or for brutality justifications; as well as knocking out opponents that there is no real reason in it, only for the sport of it. |
I have experienced some that have this view point but they are such a small minority. 98% of my experiences in the arts were positive.
On the other end of the spectrum... there are those that say it's soul purpose is meditation and a so called peaceful way.
This is my opinion - the arts were not created to sit around the camp fire to sing kumbaya. They were created as a means to defend oneself in a combative situation. Yes they do teach us how to hurt, maim, submit, control and even kill if necessary our opponent if the situation warrants it. However, neither myself nor any other instructor I know or have studied under teaches you to be the aggressor.
It's not about that. Yes there are those that would learn it to do just that but you can not blame this on the arts. The blame belongs on those that teach these students.
What do I mean by that? Its really quite simple. It boils down to the love of money instead of the responsibility of passing on deadly methods to unstable students. In the days when I was first starting, there was a "grace period" or lets call it an interview period where the instructor observed a new student to see what their temperament and maturity level was. If the student did not meet the teachers requirements for a worthy student, they were shown the door. I still do this to this day and will not hesitate to show a student the door. Unfortunately some instructors will over look someones lack of character or their violent tendencies in favor of another paying student.
You can not condemn an art due to the poor choices and decisions of an instructor.
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| Martial art styles teach how to attack and defend within the style. Do something different with in that style that hasn't learned how to defend against it, then it is called unorthodox, with a rashional explanation why it isn't practiced or taught. |
There is a valid argument for learning the curriculum of your style. However I have no problem with students from other styles/arts using the methods they have learned in said arts. Why would I? It's exposing myself and my students to attacks they/we may not know. This only makes us better.
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| Same style with approximately the same experience and the bigger will win more times than not. If the smaller one wins then an exterior influence has tipped the scales to victory. |
I absolutely disagree. Yes the larger person has an advantage but IMHO it boils down to mentality. "Its not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog.
One of my peers coming up in the art was 60 lbs heavier than I was and I would come out on top 90% of the time. You don't need an outside influence to tip the scales. You have to know yourself and know your opponents strengths and weaknesses.
My strength was speed, maneuverability and technique against him. I also utilized takedowns and throws (Tegumi) to my favor. He was larger and it was easy to get low on him and use his own body weight to defeat him. With others it may be being able to get inside, over powering, etc, etc.
The point is we all have our weaknesses and we all have our strengths. If you utilize your strengths against their weakness the balance tips very fast.
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
So much has been said for instance of how effective BJJ is. But never has it been mentioned that the Gracie's body types is very conducive for Jujitsu.
Just as the Korean body type is very suitable for kicking with.
As Chinese martial arts styles have developed from using body structure and body mechanics that are not based on developing overly big muscles to generate power.
While Karate is based on smaller stocky body types that utilizes lower gravity techniques. |
I think it boils down to making the art fit you, what ever the art is.
I am 6' 2" tall and 205. I am muscular but in no way an Adonis type. Before my knee was blown out I could kick with the best of them. Fast and powerful. My body type does not fit the kicking parameters you are mentioning but I could probably out kick most.
I understand where you are going with this but you are discounting those that do not meet the "body type" but excel in the art. I can't agree with your logic even though I understand the principle. Body types, size, gender... these are not limitations. You are your only limitation.
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| Martial arts is a way to increase one's chances of winning a physical confrontation against another person that is bigger, faster or more athletic than oneself. |
Absolutely agree!
| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| This martial arts as a way... can take years or a lifetime to achieve, with no guarantees or promises attached, that can only minimally at best help to increase a person's chances of survival in unforeseeable, unpredictable circumstance and environments. |
I also agree 100% with this statement. The art is only as good as the student. You can take an art for 20 years and still not be the best fighter. It depends on how much you put into it, how much you utilize the information that is taught to you and how you over come your weaknesses and maximize your strengths.
Learning an art does not in itself guarantee success as a fighter. More than just learning the art goes into becoming a proficient MA'ist.
Understanding yourself, understanding the mechanics and being able to apply the art to maximize your strengths and improve your weaknesses is key to becoming a proficient MA'ist. And mentality has a huge amount to do with it as well. |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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MatsuShinshii, thank you for your overwhelming response.
Funny you mentioned Adonis!
I am an Adonis type, well that's what my wife calls me sometimes when she forgets about all my imperfections.
Meanwhile back on track, with the question of having a sparring block. The Dojo or place of training is the place to get this sorted for the student.
It certainly is a confidence issue.
Personally I have never had a sparring block but I do remember not having martial art coordination skills as my muscle memory hadn't gelled instantly (A vulnerable time was my first three months as a martial artist) time with practice all sparring blocks should dissipate naturally. |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
MatsuShinshii, thank you for your overwhelming response.
Funny you mentioned Adonis!
I am an Adonis type, well that's what my wife calls me sometimes when she forgets about all my imperfections.
Meanwhile back on track, with the question of having a sparring block. The Dojo or place of training is the place to get this sorted for the student.
It certainly is a confidence issue.
Personally I have never had a sparring block but I do remember not having martial art coordination skills as my muscle memory hadn't gelled instantly (A vulnerable time was my first three months as a martial artist) time with practice all sparring blocks should dissipate naturally. |
My wife only says this after she's had more than a few drinks and doesn't know what she is saying. 
I have not had an issue with sparring either but I also looked at it from this perspective; I can loose a fight inside of the Dojo. I can only learn from my failures and progress from there. I never feared the larger, faster, more skilled opponent because I figured I could learn from the experience and could only improve from there.
I pass this same thing on to my students. There is not win/loose in the Dojo. There are only experiences and an opportunity to get better. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16420
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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I've never blocked a day/night in my life...never!! We're taught to receive the attack or to deflect the attack; an actual block would be alien to me/us.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| I've never blocked a day/night in my life...never!! We're taught to receive the attack or to deflect the attack; an actual block would be alien to me/us. |
Spot on! |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
| I've never blocked a day/night in my life...never!! We're taught to receive the attack or to deflect the attack; an actual block would be alien to me/us. |
Spot on! |
Having a sparring block is psychology issue; or does this topic have a duel meaning or perhaps it has gone off topic? |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Armstrong wrote: |
| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
| sensei8 wrote: |
| I've never blocked a day/night in my life...never!! We're taught to receive the attack or to deflect the attack; an actual block would be alien to me/us. |
Spot on! |
Having a sparring block is psychology issue; or does this topic have a duel meaning or perhaps it has gone off topic? |
I think Sensei8 was referring to the other meaning and was intejecting his views on "blocking". A little off topic but it fits in terms of discussing the arts in general.
I believe Sensei8 being of an old school back ground was pointing out that there is not such thing as a block in Karate. The term Uke means to receive not to block and is utilized/implemented as a strike, sweep, trap, deflection, redirection, or unbalancing technique.
You of course are correct in your interpretation of the discussion being psychological. The mental block (good use of the word block within the real utilization of the word in Karate) inhibiting a student during sparring/Kumite. |
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on the post.
